(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[9000]OT[3x60 byo-yomi]
GN[Zhuyeqing Tea EGC2011 - MAIN - Round 3 - Board 4]PW[Alexander Dinershteyn]PB[Ondrej Silt]WR[7d]BR[6d]DT[2011-07-26]EV[Zhuyeqing Tea European Go Congress 2011 - Bordeaux]RO[3rd round]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]WT[Russia]BT[Czech Republic]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: Good morning
ivank [6k\]: good morning
ivank [6k\]: go, Alex!
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Players are not there yet
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: heya :-) Go Ondrej!
Koffein [-\]: ondrej! />
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Ondrej hasn't arrived yet. W plays the Clock tesuji.
ivank [6k\]: then w is already ahead =)
just9x9 [-\]: only way to cope with opponent being late is clock tesuji
razzia [5d\]: Mano power :)
nocturne19 [2d\]: pressure
]
;B[pd]C[NinjaCat [7k\]: c5 ё
]
;W[dp]C[ibribyd: Alex play too unsure
]
;B[pq]C[just9x9 [-\]: e16 come on
NinjaCat [7k\]: l11 
]
;W[dc]C[just9x9 [-\]: f3
Hellhuman [-\]: go b
]
;B[de]
;W[qo]C[Laman [3d\]: go, Ondřej
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: q8 :-)
kribbig [2k\]: ondrej no go
NinjaCat [7k\]: why they think so hard if nothing happends ? some one pls kick the board
]
;B[pl]C[kungming [3k\]: same trick
]
;W[pn]C[Mikinek [3k\]: ondrej can beat Shikshin, who is stronger than Din, so? :)
kungming [3k\]: din is pro. ilya no pro
bro [4d?\]: but this is not go-logic :)
Mikinek [3k\]: dont care
Mikinek [3k\]: yes bro, but its favorable for us :)
bro [4d?\]: this joseki isnt play often nowdays
kungming [3k\]: one of dinner's trick play
Laman [3d\]: Shikshin is last champion, isnt he?
bro [4d?\]: p5 has great variations play it ! 
ivank [6k\]: he is
Mikinek [3k\]: he is many times last champion (btw)
Koffein [-\]: p5 for the audience!
]
;B[rp]C[just9x9 [-\]: s4?
Koffein [-\]: r3 r4 q4 p4 q5 r2 p3 q2 s5 o3 s3 s2 t3 
Koffein [-\]: joseki
]
;W[qq]
;B[qp]
;W[pp]
;B[op]
;W[po]
;B[qr]
;W[oq]
;B[pr]
;W[ro]
;B[nq]
;W[rq]
;B[rr]
;W[sp]C[sagesse [-\]: shikshin is 2 times champion i think
just9x9 [-\]: wow nice koffein, didnt know that one
]
;B[cc]C[Koffein [-\]: another game with an old joseki .. if you compare board 1 and 4 with the korean board, it looks like europe is 30 years late ..
just9x9 [-\]: even if your last move was doubtful ;)
Koffein [-\]: oh, misclick ^^'
Laman [3d\]: old != bad
Mikinek [3k\]: agree
bro [4d?\]: you youngsters have no appreciation for old style :)
Koffein [-\]: bro, you are not old enough to defend 80´s style :p
Francky [9k?\]: what is the boyomi of this game ?
Nilatarion [3d\]: 3x1:00
Francky [9k?\]: wow
Francky [9k?\]: ok
Francky [9k?\]: understand better
Vondel [1k\]: result looks even to me in this position
Mikinek [3k\]: black better?
shusai [4k\]: for me yes
bro [4d?\]: Koffein- 80´s is my favourite period :)
shusai [4k\]: but i dont know how to play this game
Laman [3d\]: i would say even
]
;W[cb]C[bro [4d?\]: definitely ok for both until now.
]
;B[cd]
;W[fc]C[Backflash [10k\]: oooh, nice match up!
Backflash [10k\]: who won yesterday?
]
;B[bb]C[Backflash [10k\]: bogatsky or alex? didn't watch till the end =\\
]
;W[ic]C[Laman [3d\]: Alex
furiousgo [1k\]: alex
Backflash [10k\]: thx
]
;B[qf]C[bro [4d?\]: pff this result in upper left is strange
Backflash [10k\]: isn't it joseki?
Mikinek [3k\]: better 4 black, isnt it? :)
]
;W[lc]C[kribbig [2k\]: why is w all low
Backflash [10k\]: diner play strangly
Backflash [10k\]: yea
Backflash [10k\]: well he is solid that's sure
]
;B[cn]C[bro [4d?\]: well its solid, so hard to to criticise it. Im not a pro to say, its about 4 points worse than normal play :)
]
;W[cl]C[kudou [?\]: b plays well
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: counter pincer and then c3 :-)
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: for black :-) 
Backflash [10k\]: really?
Kanin [-\]: not a bad idea dejmipivp
Backflash [10k\]: not to say plain
Koffein [-\]: c11?
Koffein [-\]: no
Backflash [10k\]: he can't
Backflash [10k\]: c6 falls in vain
Mukti [4d\]: I would expect F4 or perhaps D8...
Backflash [10k\]: d8 Oo
Backflash [10k\]: c9 mb?
Backflash [10k\]: d8 gives side to w no?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: C3 etc. then W C11 maybe
Backflash [10k\]: well it is most obvious, not sure diner would play that
Mukti [4d\]: D8-D9-E8-C7-D6-F4-E5-E4-C3-etc.
EGC2011B4 [?\]: A little slow, but it's the game's mood
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: I think if black wants to jump at c3 he must play ariund c11 first
Laman [3d\]: D8 gives black power to attack D4
Backflash [10k\]: he likes to ignore plain things:)
Koffein [-\]: i don´t like c3 (too flat), but f4 is gote (white has too many good moves) 
Mikinek [3k\]: so f3
Mikinek [3k\]: ?
Koffein [-\]: f3 and f4 are the same
Koffein [-\]: oh
Koffein [-\]: hmm
Backflash [10k\]: i say depends on silts mood, to many ways to deal with it
Koffein [-\]: f3 d6 c3 
Backflash [10k\]: most of them basicaly the same
EGC2011B4 [?\]: I like D8 as well, with B solid enough in the upper left
bro [4d?\]: I dont think that jump is the bad idea neither
Kanin [-\]: G4 increasingly popular aswell
Backflash [10k\]: not too open?
Backflash [10k\]: g4 i mean
Mikinek [3k\]: i dont like jump :(
Mikinek [3k\]: :)
Koffein [-\]: hmm
]
;B[ci]C[Koffein [-\]: haha
Mikinek [3k\]: none of us :)
Backflash [10k\]: told ya, depends on the mood:)
Koffein [-\]: Koffein [-\]: c11? Koffein [-\]: no
Mikinek [3k\]: ha, sry koffein
Backflash [10k\]: silt sure he can save c6
Backflash [10k\]: or make it profitable
Mukti [4d\]: This is a highly irregular move.
Mukti [4d\]: It feels wrong, somehow.
Koffein [-\]: well, how to continue for white?
Backflash [10k\]: gamble i say
Mukti [4d\]: If w D6 b no doubt plans to play D5.
Backflash [10k\]: take corner
Backflash [10k\]: what else
Mikinek [3k\]: i think silt is confident, after yesterdays success
Vondel [1k\]: tenuki is not impossible localy I thought
Mukti [4d\]: F3 for w would be usual
Kanin [-\]: DejMiPivo [8k?\]: counter pincer and then c3 :-) DejMiPivo [8k?\]: for black :-)  Backflash [10k\]: really? Kanin [-\]: not a bad idea dejmipivp
Kanin [-\]: I thought he was talking about this counter pincer :O
]
;W[fq]C[Backflash [10k\]: Kanin, well no one expected such overconfident play from silt
Koffein [-\]: b4 ?
]
;B[cp]
;W[cq]
;B[bq]
;W[co]
;B[bp]C[Laman [3d\]: and is it so overconfident?
]
;W[do]C[Kanin [-\]: pretty normal
Backflash [10k\]: you are the dans you know:)
Backflash [10k\]: i say how it looks to me
Koffein [-\]: once you are dan you realize you know nothing
Backflash [10k\]: they sure do know something
Mikinek [3k\]: do know that dont know anything :)
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: I did miss it. What was the sequence after c11?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: F3 C4
Backflash [10k\]: watch offline
]
;B[dq]C[DejMiPivo [8k?\]: thanks
]
;W[cr]
;B[dr]
;W[br]
;B[ar]C[Longshi [-\]: I don't like white's position at this point
Mikinek [3k\]: e2?
gisel [4d\]: playing this passively, looks like Alex is already at disadvantage
Longshi [-\]: b5 c1 r11 I guess
bro [4d?\]: black is going to have 4 corners
Imp20 [3k\]: he already does
]
;W[qj]C[Longshi [-\]: with komi white can afford to play somewhat passively so I don't this he's at disadvantage, I just don't like this kind of game
Longshi [-\]: ah, screw b5 then
shusai [4k\]: p17
Backflash [10k\]: upper right is not played yet
Backflash [10k\]: so he does not
Imp20 [3k\]: w can live there with a ko
shusai [4k\]: p9
Imp20 [3k\]: q9 looks like an interesting move for b
EGC2011B4 [?\]: P17 tells W "you're too slow" ^^. B5? Tight as well.
Backflash [10k\]: yea  p17 would be amusing
Backflash [10k\]: can't see q9's point
Crow [3d\]: b5 also huge
shusai [4k\]: its either cut connection or take corner
joossy [2k\]: А Илья Никшин сегодня не играет?
Crow [3d\]: w stones no eyes
Backflash [10k\]: играет вроде
Backflash [10k\]: не показывают
Backflash [10k\]: хотя неззнай
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Both players are around the board most of the time now. They spent the first 40 moves away, one or the other or both
]
;B[rl]C[Backflash [10k\]: он вчера проиграл может нет щас спрошу
Backflash [10k\]: is shikshin playing today?
Mikinek [3k\]: yeeeeeaaaahh
Backflash [10k\]: wow
Mikinek [3k\]: s8, thats the spirit :)
joossy [2k\]: with who?
Backflash [10k\]: i'm asking i don't know
Imp20 [3k\]: l3
]
;W[qg]C[Backflash [10k\]: l3 is in a galaxy far far away
]
;B[pg]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: Is S14 possible? "standard" would be R12 S14 then P11 perhaps
Longshi [-\]: standard would be a bit dull at this point no ?
Longshi [-\]: I'm expecting q12 
Mukti [4d\]: He should eb backflash, although I cannot find the pairing on the site.
Longshi [-\]: but s14 looks certainly possible 
]
;W[ph]C[cherisse [?\]: nice board!
EGC2011B4 [?\]: It's shinkaya
cherisse [?\]: i mean the pairing <|:D
EGC2011B4 [?\]: ^^
]
;B[pf]C[Backflash [10k\]: well now 4 corners
Backflash [10k\]: b won right?
]
;W[oh]C[gisel [4d\]: well, this game is about who has more territory in the end, not who gets all corners
Sven84 [2k\]: wasn't it if any player has 4 corners b can resign? :)
shakti [-\]: probablt the worst proverb of all time
Backflash [10k\]: gisel it was old flat joke btw
]
;B[pj]
;W[qk]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: Q9 seems obvious, but Ondrej is away since a few minutes
]
;B[pk]C[fisz [-\]: polish hearts with czech superhead
blazej [-\]: yeee
]
;W[qi]
;B[ql]
;W[rg]C[ivank [6k\]: be cautious when polishing hearts without prescription
]
;B[rf]
;W[nn]
;B[mk]
;W[mi]
;B[jc]
;W[jd]
;B[id]C[Vondel [1k\]: can someone explain to me why black would play K17?
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: As far as I can understand it black wants to attack p12 group and needs stones in the top
]
;W[jb]
;B[hc]C[DejMiPivo [8k?\]: but I am wrong :-)
Backflash [10k\]: f17 as i undertand he wants to kill that
Backflash [10k\]: or completle reduce white
Backflash [10k\]: anything works fine
Backflash [10k\]: ly*
]
;W[ib]
;B[je]
;W[kd]C[DOCTOR [5k\]: h15
]
;B[bo]
;W[dn]C[Koffein [-\]: ??
Mikinek [3k\]: ??
]
;B[dm]C[fisz [-\]: it was wariation
]
;W[cm]C[Laman [3d\]: forgotten exchange?
]
;B[bn]C[lenchen16 [6k\]: goooooo ondrej silt (^^)/>
]
;W[dk]
;B[em]
;W[eq]
;B[cs]
;W[fo]C[EGC2011B1 [-\]: Live TV broadcast of this game on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
]
;B[gm]
;W[ej]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: pachi
]
;B[gj]C[bro [4d?\]: wow white has so many unsettled groups
SqueezeIt [2d\]: lol
]
;W[dh]
;B[ch]C[zoowatt [?\]: ??
]
;W[dg]C[awetg: how much time do they have left?
]
;B[cg]
;W[gh]
;B[ii]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: can't see from my chair, i'll try to tell you soon
]
;W[hj]C[awetg: thanks :)
]
;B[hi]
;W[gi]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: 35 for b, 58 for w
shusai [4k\]: j9
awetg: thanks
Laman [3d\]: it looks unclear
quappe [4d\]: something will die
]
;B[gk]C[Laman [3d\]: go, Mano!
i2i3 [8k?\]: b promised
Koffein [-\]: ondrej! />
]
;W[ik]C[DOCTOR [5k\]: k7
zoowatt [?\]: b could have played L9 instead of H11, wonder how w would have come back then
]
;B[im]
;W[kk]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: i'm the only people left around the board :)
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Ondrej comes back
]
;B[mm]C[zoowatt [?\]: this will be 2 v 2 weak groups or even 3 v 3 :)
Longshi [-\]: 3v3 is for noobs, says rabid starcraft fan behind me
Laman [3d\]: not when both 3 are controled by one player
Laman [3d\]: *all 3
]
;W[km]C[Syptryn [3d\]: something will di
Syptryn [3d\]: die
]
;B[mn]
;W[np]
;B[or]
;W[mo]
;B[kn]C[zoowatt [?\]: well w has to kill something, b just has to survive with the biggest bits :)
shusai [4k\]: ???
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Just checking
]
;W[nm]C[Laman [3d\]: N8
bro [4d?\]: n8 p9 cut
SqueezeIt [2d\]: no cut
Laman [3d\]: P9 cuts? P10 connects, no?
SqueezeIt [2d\]: yeah
bro [4d?\]: ah, blind spot
Laman [3d\]: but possibly something like M10 even better. N8 simple
]
;B[nl]C[zoowatt [?\]: ouch, w M8
]
;W[ln]
;B[lm]
;W[ll]C[zoowatt [?\]: yeah
]
;B[ml]
;W[lo]C[Laman [3d\]: i hope black has a good plan
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: me too :-)
zoowatt [?\]: N8 would have been so much better, and w is lucky
SqueezeIt [2d\]: better a good calculation :D
]
;B[jm]
;W[kl]C[DejMiPivo [8k?\]: m10
]
;B[lj]
;W[ji]C[Laman [3d\]: zoowatt: black probably saw an advantage in O8
SqueezeIt [2d\]: this works for b, doesn't it?
Punani [8k\]: l11?
Laman [3d\]: what now for black?
zoowatt [?\]: maybe he can survive with both groups, if he is really imaginative :)
SqueezeIt [2d\]: tengen)
darthvader [5d\]: k10 j10 
SqueezeIt [2d\]: but b can sacrifice the 2 stones..
]
;B[jh]C[Laman [3d\]: apparently not good enough :)
SqueezeIt [2d\]: but I think even k10 would be enough for b to win?
]
;W[ki]
;B[li]C[Syptryn [3d\]: l-10 ddn't work?
Syptryn [3d\]: K-10
]
;W[kh]C[zoowatt [?\]: b seems hypnotized like a mouse by a snake, scary to watch
bro [4d?\]: k10 l10 l11 k12 k9 
]
;B[lh]C[DejMiPivo [8k?\]: now I am not sure who is attacking :D
zoowatt [?\]: J4 is crucial for both?
Longshi [-\]: j12 ?
]
;W[ng]C[Longshi [-\]: b seems in pretty bad trouble
zoowatt [?\]: if b connects then w J4
]
;B[mf]
;W[nf]
;B[ne]
;W[me]C[just9x9 [-\]: more unsettled than settles groups here lol
teach [3d\]: w played so heavy from the start
just9x9 [-\]: heavy or tough?
bert [2d\]: k13 
zoowatt [?\]: w P12 have to be alive before J4 :)
nocturne19 [2d\]: b'shape is hardly fixed
teach [3d\]: b M13
teach [3d\]: he is fine
]
;B[lf]C[idontca1 [2d\]: aere they in byoyomi yet?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Ondrej is, just lost one period
just9x9 [-\]: p15?
zoowatt [?\]: B L13 sente is seems then b M14, w P15, b O16 w P16, b P17, w O17, B N16, w P14, b M15, w Q17 B P18
bert [2d\]: were he a woman he'd get the period?
Laman [3d\]: byoyomi period ;-)
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Grow up bert
need4speed [-\]: forever alone jokes :D
just9x9 [-\]: or maybe l13 first, then p15?
just9x9 [-\]: what the hell do i know...
]
;W[rk]C[Opa [2d?\]: t11
zoowatt [?\]: b J13 ?
Titaantje [?\]: s12
Laman [3d\]: or K13?
]
;B[ig]C[bert [2d\]: tenukiing center was wrong imo
zoowatt [?\]: yeah, now b is lucky
need4speed [-\]: i cant see the w eyes 
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: no, white could play j12, which would be the end
just9x9 [-\]: well l13 can still fight
just9x9 [-\]: or k14 maybe?
salty [2d\]: w had to tenuki in center
bert [2d\]: m15 p15 h15 
]
;W[jg]C[bert [2d\]: after l13 i meant
]
;B[if]C[just9x9 [-\]: here we ko
Syptryn [3d\]: black seems dead :(
sameasyou [3d\]: I think h13 also possible and no ko
zoowatt [?\]: w L14 b L15 w m13 and ko again
Imp20 [3k\]: l14
bert [2d\]: l11 seems dead if no ko
]
;W[oe]C[shusai [4k\]: k5
bro [4d?\]: g13 
martin3141 [4d\]: g13 
sameasyou [3d\]: o16
]
;B[ih]C[sameasyou [3d\]: olala...captured
sameasyou [3d\]: r17 now?
hfdtd [2d\]: this game is strange
need4speed [-\]: h8 ?
zoowatt [?\]: extremely big
bro [4d?\]: k4 
Koffein [-\]: e10 is much weaker now
just9x9 [-\]: today's games are all strange, the korean game was superstrange
sameasyou [3d\]: Silt will win this
Liso66 [4k\]: k6?
bro [4d?\]: yeah ! Mano is SO strong 
zoowatt [?\]: its a bit like go seigen - sakata games ...
fatihsulak [?\]: white should l14 i guess
Laman [3d\]: Šilt for the champion!
hfdtd [2d\]: white group to the left is also in danger
need4speed [-\]: why isnt w show its pro rank
need4speed [-\]: isnt he 2p?
bert [2d\]: :-)
Any [?\]: he is 3p
Laman [3d\]: by the way, how did Dinerchtein actually get his pro rank?
Any [?\]: but Catalin is 5p
idontca1 [2d\]: $10,000
need4speed [-\]: lol 
bro [4d?\]: :))
sameasyou [3d\]: as I am aware only Catalin got his pro rank the way the asian players do...by playing and winning
need4speed [-\]: well much respect for him, he mantain kogos joseki 
sameasyou [3d\]: the rest european pros are honorary titles
]
;W[kf]C[zoowatt [?\]: is w K6 last chance ?
Any [?\]: I do not know if pros rank is corresponding with their power
hfdtd [2d\]: dinerchstein has won the egc more often than any other
Any [?\]: I think not
sameasyou [3d\]: I think Shikshin and Artem will also have a shot at pro rank
sameasyou [3d\]: Catalin lived in Japan for 10-11 years
need4speed [-\]: not artem
]
;B[ke]C[sameasyou [3d\]: back then he was not allowed to participate in amateur tournaments
need4speed [-\]: are you talking about honorary pro?
Koffein [-\]: silt:dinerstein tournament stats are 3:2 for silt
]
;W[le]
;B[lg]C[bert [2d\]: r17 now?
martin3141 [4d\]: white can't possibly plan to start a semeai
sameasyou [3d\]: I think r17 is the last w chance
DanielTom [-\]: dinerchtein tried to play solidly in the beginning
DanielTom [-\]: I think he was afraid after seeing Silt's last game against ilya
DanielTom [-\]: :-)
hfdtd [2d\]: white should catxh the black cutting stone on o15
teach [3d\]: solid ???
teach [3d\]: more like heavy
just9x9 [-\]: there is still k6 for w isnt it?
bert [2d\]: he didn't try to play heavily, u must be joking teach
sameasyou [3d\]: I think at the moment beating Ilya is harder than beating Dinerstein...Silt is in great shape anyway
fatihsulak [?\]: probably only k6 aji left 
Liso66 [4k\]: are they in bjojomi? 
Zorba [5d\]: if w wins this game, I stop to play go 
just9x9 [-\]: you wont
Zorba [5d\]: yes because b will win 
bisquit [3k\]: k6 h8 together a possibility maybe
just9x9 [-\]: no because you wont ;P
hfdtd [2d\]: we'll see
DanielTom [-\]: he said he will stop watching, and he will play go
snowman [-\]: it would be a loss for... wait...
]
;W[hd]C[zoowatt [?\]: or H6 K6 but in a fantasy realm really
fatihsulak [?\]: g14 plz
]
;B[ie]C[zoowatt [?\]: not sure I understand w atm
fatihsulak [?\]: p15 might be the losing move
DanielTom [-\]: q18 ?
DanielTom [-\]: nearly impossible for W to win
bert [2d\]: h8 g8 k6 l5 j6 h7 l4 ?
martin3141 [4d\]: p17 
teach [3d\]: w was fine until R11
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: n3?
zoowatt [?\]: I presume w H6 W K6 only chance at anything
MagicUser [2k\]: b+r?
]
;W[oc]C[zoowatt [?\]: ah, w H6, b J6 so nothing
]
;B[pc]
;W[hl]C[martin3141 [4d\]: black can sacrifice the two stones
]
;B[hm]C[zoowatt [?\]: yepp
zoowatt [?\]: so game over
]
;W[gl]C[bert [2d\]: w will take those two in sente
Chilltime [2d\]: ?
Koffein [-\]: h9 
]
;B[fl]
;W[fk]C[fatihsulak [?\]: fight goes on
]
;B[il]
;W[hk]C[andreiraz [3k\]: j8 h9 k9 f10 j10 
teach [3d\]: 4 corners + center kill
]
;B[jk]
;W[fj]C[teach [3d\]: b resign
DanielTom [-\]: ?
bert [2d\]: w should have exchanged k4 k6 first perhaps
andreiraz [3k\]: k10 
teach [3d\]: hehe
Zenshu [10k\]: l5 for w
Zenshu [10k\]: or k6  and fight
]
;B[jl]
;W[ob]
;B[pb]C[zoowatt [?\]: that was the proper resign place ... it seems russians have something to learn
]
;W[jn]C[Koffein [-\]: it wasn´t
Koffein [-\]: w settled his group by capturing g10, weird moment to resign
sameasyou [3d\]: Ilya is russian...India is not in Europe so he couldn't participate at EGC
zoowatt [?\]: have you counted this game?
JeansebL [2d?\]: lol?
bert [2d\]: what is the count now?
JeansebL [2d?\]: is korea in europe ?
]
;B[ko]C[hfdtd [2d\]: :-)
randras [2d\]: or japan
]
;W[kp]C[zoowatt [?\]: the only way w can win this game is if b passes two times
Koffein [-\]: sometimes i think china is in austria
hfdtd [2d\]: no it's in amerika
Lesmian [2d\]: are they in byo?
hfdtd [2d\]: both: china and korea
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Ondrej down to his last period
]
;B[kr]C[Koffein [-\]: ouch
DanielTom [-\]: oh
bert [2d\]: ?
shusai [4k\]: ?
]
;W[jo]C[bert [2d\]: this game is still close
]
;B[kj]
;W[pa]
;B[qa]
;W[oa]C[DanielTom [-\]: alex should be better at yose
]
;B[rb]C[bro [4d?\]: it isnt
Koffein [-\]: looks like zorba will stop playing go ..
shusai [4k\]: lol
Graf [3d\]: m3
Graf [3d\]: m2 sorry
Graf [3d\]: or d18
bert [2d\]: ancient greeks are not meant to play go anyway
]
;W[er]C[martin3141 [4d\]: what was l2 for?
]
;B[bs]C[Koffein [-\]: to live ..
Graf [3d\]: l2 is ok
Koffein [-\]: white n2 kills
]
;W[ir]
;B[jr]C[zoowatt [?\]: maybe w is hoping for a silly mistake in byoyomi?
Zairex [1d\]: its not soo bad for w
idontca1 [2d\]: w is leading
]
;W[db]
;B[gd]C[Graf [3d\]: no
Graf [3d\]: black leading
]
;W[ba]C[DanielTom [-\]: I don't think B is leading anymore
Graf [3d\]: w try to force
]
;B[ab]
;W[hb]
;B[gc]
;W[gb]C[bert [2d\]: b9
]
;B[di]C[chro [5k\]: g15 
]
;W[ei]C[bert [2d\]: i would have played k2 instead of j2
]
;B[bk]C[shusai [4k\]: milimetric game
hfdtd [2d\]: me too
need4speed [-\]: b win
need4speed [-\]: easy
need4speed [-\]: +6
shusai [4k\]: zorba is praying
DanielTom [-\]: I say W will win!
bert [2d\]: b10 c10 c9 b8 a10 ?
nocturne19 [2d\]: ah
nocturne19 [2d\]: alex is good at yose
]
;W[bj]
;B[cj]
;W[ck]
;B[bi]C[bert [2d\]: a8 better
nocturne19 [2d\]: wonder how much point he can get in this situation
goseki [5d\]: a10 was best
goseki [5d\]: now w can a8
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Alex is in byoyomi too now
]
;W[bl]
;B[iq]
;W[hr]
;B[hq]C[Zenshu [10k\]: it's close then:p
nocturne19 [2d\]: oh
hfdtd [2d\]: good
]
;W[gq]C[nocturne19 [2d\]: good play by b
hfdtd [2d\]: j1
]
;B[is]
;W[gr]
;B[aj]C[Graf [3d\]: k3
Any [?\]: Problem is that w has only a few possibilities to gain any points and b can destroy open area
nocturne19 [2d\]: anyway i got the feeling that b's better
zoowatt [?\]: feeling? what about counting?
need4speed [-\]: b is won
teach [3d\]: close, yeah
need4speed [-\]: whats b kgs level?
nocturne19 [2d\]: no i can't count in the close game
EGC2011B4 [?\]: F6? to capture J3?
]
;W[pe]C[idontca1 [2d\]: what do you think of the game mr robot?
]
;B[qe]C[just9x9 [-\]: dans do feel the count, they dont bother with counting zoowatt
teach [3d\]: b a bit better
zoowatt [?\]: lol
]
;W[sf]
;B[se]
;W[sg]C[nocturne19 [2d\]: i just can estimate in the more than 10 point different games
need4speed [-\]: not a bot, a lot
bert [2d\]: i thought so too, but realized i was wrong
TurtleDove [5k\]: if it was Japanese counting, I'd say it s close.but it s Chinese counting so I have no idea
]
;B[od]
;W[nd]
;B[lq]C[need4speed [-\]: oh chinese counting in egc ??
just9x9 [-\]: just count japanese, no diff
teach [3d\]: its the same result +- one
salty [2d\]: b wins :-)
TurtleDove [5k\]: I got W +1.5
Laman [3d\]: i got black+few
salty [2d\]: nope
salty [2d\]: b +
EGC2011B4 [?\]: No way for K3, seems
]
;W[jq]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: 7.5 komi
odmin65536 [1k\]: no 6,5
Talraii [2k\]: black seems ahead...
Laman [3d\]: H5
]
;B[ho]C[SqueezeIt [2d\]: EGC, is it really chinese counting? and how much is komi, 7.5?
]
;W[rm]C[Opa [2d?\]: yes
bert [2d\]: i count w some 40 pts +komi, b 55 
DanielTom [-\]: was k3 good?
lupis [2d\]: area scoring but japanese counting. :) and komi is 7.5
odmin65536 [1k\]: yes
]
;B[en]C[LeeSeTroll [3d\]: only 40 points with chinese counting:P
salty [2d\]: ing rules , should be 7.5
odmin65536 [1k\]: white can eat h3
need4speed [-\]: 7.5 because of stone worth 1 
]
;W[eo]C[need4speed [-\]: japanese is 6.5
]
;B[qm]
;W[rn]C[need4speed [-\]: <-obvious captain
]
;B[fg]C[DanielTom [-\]: painful
teach [3d\]: if b fills last dame, w hands over one extra prisoner
goseki [5d\]: quite big...
]
;W[fh]
;B[fd]
;W[ed]
;B[ee]C[Graf [3d\]: d14
fgdh: g13
]
;W[gg]
;B[eg]
;W[eh]
;B[gf]
;W[df]
;B[cf]C[bert [2d\]: oops?
Talraii [2k\]: g15 ^^
]
;W[sl]C[bert [2d\]: f14 e14 g15 ?
]
;B[ni]
;W[mh]C[hfdtd [2d\]: take
zoowatt [?\]: I think b misses the w move at H6
zoowatt [?\]: which can be prevented by b G4
]
;B[oi]C[hfdtd [2d\]:  f14 e14 g15 ==> take
]
;W[hf]
;B[ff]
;W[hg]
;B[he]C[bert [2d\]: h6 g6 g5 j6 ?
SqueezeIt [2d\]: Mano is so strong!
Korf [1k\]: H6 G6 no problem
]
;W[sr]C[Sadaharu [7d\]: s16
zoowatt [?\]: H6 J6 H4
Ootakamoku [1d\]: any news on how antti has been doing?
]
;B[nc]
;W[nb]C[dxxd [1k\]: 5d- 6d+ 5d-
need4speed [-\]: any result page?
zoowatt [?\]: maybe both players misses this
]
;B[kq]
;W[jp]C[Sonatine [6k\]: Link pour result pls
Zairex [1d\]: its just u zoowatt
]
;B[io]C[idontca1 [2d\]: antii ost :(
Liso66 [4k\]: http://www.egc2011.eu/index.php/en/results-pairing
bert [2d\]: link poor results, why?
Sonatine [6k\]: thx
need4speed [-\]: much apreciated
]
;W[mj]C[Windtalker [-\]: not updated for 3rd round right?
teach [3d\]: only once a day update http://www.egc2011.eu/index.php/en/results-pairing
Liso66 [4k\]: but not very actual and often bad information :/ 
]
;B[lk]C[bazilxp [?\]: try alternative :) http://gokifu.com/egc2011/
]
;W[kn]
;B[nj]C[Mukti [4d\]: B seems safely ahead.
Sonatine [6k\]: debarre has won round 3?
bazilxp [?\]: yes
idontca1 [2d\]: b+4or5
]
;W[oo]C[Sonatine [6k\]: ohhh french power!
]
;B[om]
;W[oq]
;B[mq]
;W[rs]C[Mikinek [3k\]: czech power :)
shusai [4k\]: still close
profan [-\]: dinertstyn isnt a korean pro^
profan [-\]: ?
need4speed [-\]: debarre escapade for the win
]
;B[on]
;W[no]C[need4speed [-\]: dinerstyn gona lose , ondrej beast
]
;B[gp]
;W[fp]C[Any [?\]: beasst or best?
]
;B[ld]C[profan [-\]: is shikshin playng?
]
;W[md]C[DanielTom [-\]: finished
]
;B[of]C[gggggf: 7.5 komi?
]
;W[ne]
;B[rd]C[salty [2d\]: yup
patet [5k\]: q7
nocturne19 [2d\]: uhm
zoowatt [?\]: w S16 was 2p absolut sente ...
]
;W[pm]
;B[ol]
;W[al]
;B[ak]C[LeeSeTroll [3d\]: dinersteyn probably losing concentration
nocturne19 [2d\]: is this game counted by chinese rule?
]
;W[hs]
;B[js]C[Liso66 [4k\]: mixed rule :) 
need4speed [-\]: game sentenced many moves ago
idontca1 [2d\]: the rule set only makes 1 point diff ever so who cares
nocturne19 [2d\]: so seem w lost
]
;W[op]C[Liso66 [4k\]: Simplified Ing Rules and Japanese fill-in counting
Liso66 [4k\]: see http://www.egc2011.eu/index.php/en/tournaments/98-regle-du-jeu-egc-2011
]
;B[qs]
;W[es]C[DejMiPivo [8k?\]: d16?
]
;B[ca]C[LeeSeTroll [3d\]: d16 isnt a point
]
;W[da]C[LeeSeTroll [3d\]: w has to fill anyway
odmin65536 [1k\]: j10 first
hfdtd [2d\]: f18
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: ok
hfdtd [2d\]: for better yose
]
;B[am]
;W[bm]C[yuuubeiiii [4k?\]: im for harry potter sosie
]
;B[an]C[gggggf: I see w plus 0.5 am I the only one?
]
;W[ec]C[need4speed [-\]: yes
idontca1 [2d\]: yes you are
gggggf: :(
kavias [4k?\]: :)
TonyTiger [-\]: tiihiihii
]
;B[in]C[Mukti [4d\]: B safe win.
]
;W[gn]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: next, the lawyers arrive to negotiate the score
]
;B[ss]C[need4speed [-\]: w not good at counting or lacking time
]
;W[ip]
;B[hp]
;W[rs]C[just9x9 [-\]: manhood omg
nocturne19 [2d\]: is b17 worth 1 points?
idontca1 [2d\]: no
]
;B[fb]
;W[fa]
;B[ss]
;W[fn]
;B[fm]
;W[rs]
;B[sk]C[just9x9 [-\]: ist j10 a point or am i halucinating?
]
;W[sj]
;B[ss]C[LeeSeTroll [3d\]: halucinating
idontca1 [2d\]: hallucinating
Windtalker [-\]: j10 no point
just9x9 [-\]: right i see now
Sadaharu [7d\]: hallucinating
]
;W[bc]C[just9x9 [-\]: ty
idontca1 [2d\]: np
Sadaharu [7d\]: np
power [3k\]: stop halucinating
]
;B[bd]
;W[rs]
;B[sm]
;W[sn]C[DanielTom [-\]: so he loses?
]
;B[ss]
;W[ai]C[nocturne19 [2d\]: oh
]
;B[ah]
;W[rs]C[nocturne19 [2d\]: j10 a ko threat for w
Opa [2d?\]: yep
just9x9 [-\]: but then b has g9 as threat
Korf [1k\]: o12 is such a nice threat
need4speed [-\]: 6d ama beating a korean pro¡
nocturne19 [2d\]: yes
Windtalker [-\]: yes indeed
nocturne19 [2d\]: so j10 not really ako threat 
DanielTom [-\]: B was an insei for 3 years
idontca1 [2d\]: b wins the ko
Windtalker [-\]: not really
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Ondrej just recaptured the ko without making a threat
DanielTom [-\]: oh!
idontca1 [2d\]: whhhhaaayt
idontca1 [2d\]: default?
Windtalker [-\]: what????
Koffein [-\]: aaaaaaaaaah
TonyTiger [-\]: !!!
idontca1 [2d\]: no way
Laman [3d\]: i dont believe
TonyTiger [-\]: alex is going to freak out as usual?
DanielTom [-\]: maybe he was nervous
nocturne19 [2d\]: minus point?
just9x9 [-\]: hehe he will claim victory
Zairex [1d\]: :--- D
dxxd [1k\]: lol
Liso66 [4k\]: ing rules does not punish it
DanielTom [-\]: what are the rules?
just9x9 [-\]: he did so various times
LovroKlc [-\]: oh no, rules again
rats [3d?\]: passes count as points
DanielTom [-\]: if it's just 1 point, B still wins I think
Windtalker [-\]: no video?
kavias [4k?\]: nope
Nickless [-\]: isnt it in ing rules
rats [3d?\]: so, whoever wins the ko gets more points
idontca1 [2d\]: EGC tell us what happens :s
Nickless [-\]: that he doesnt lose if he does that ?
Liso66 [4k\]: simplified ing rules
TurtleDove [5k\]: get the lawyer
Montchik [-\]: are they throwing stones yet
nocturne19 [2d\]: call referee
idontca1 [2d\]: if point punishment b still win
Windtalker [-\]: get robert
slowcooker [1d\]: no komi?
slowcooker [1d\]: komi is not counted?
LovroKlc [-\]: who are the referee
need4speed [-\]: ban both players from tournament
LovroKlc [-\]: refeerees?
Razg [1k\]: there is komi
salty [2d\]: looooooooooooooooooooooooool
kavias [4k?\]: maybe is just EGC mistake
blackman [1d\]: break the board
slowcooker [1d\]: if there is komi, w wins then
TurtleDove [5k\]: blame the scribe
Koffein [-\]: move board 1 camera to board 4 pls ;-)
randras [2d\]: laci laci 
salty [2d\]: ouch, what pity
blackman [1d\]: szia andris :)
randras [2d\]: :)
nocturne19 [2d\]: where is egc
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Seems B forfeits the game. The referees are checking
idontca1 [2d\]: no way
DanielTom [-\]: oh
idontca1 [2d\]: point penalty
nocturne19 [2d\]: what
sameasyou [3d\]: what????
DanielTom [-\]: alex so lucky
Zairex [1d\]: :D
TonyTiger [-\]: lol
nocturne19 [2d\]: :))
Nickless [-\]: no way
sameasyou [3d\]: amazing
Zairex [1d\]: alex stong!
kavias [4k?\]: mr. EGC, feed us some info please
Nickless [-\]: come on
nocturne19 [2d\]: i can't believe this
zoowatt [?\]: I dont believe this.
Windtalker [-\]: come on alex
nocturne19 [2d\]: common just a small mistake
TonyTiger [-\]: alex played so well
DanielTom [-\]: if it's the rules, what did you expect
Zairex [1d\]: zorba remember ur promise
sameasyou [3d\]: hahaha...the only way Dinerstein can win
TonyTiger [-\]: congrats alex for great victory
nocturne19 [2d\]: b deserve a win
DonMorti [6k\]: did white pass last turn?
slowcooker [1d\]: what happened
power [3k\]: b is noob
DanielTom [-\]: B should have been more careful
DanielTom [-\]: I guess it was the pressure
quappe [4d\]: is this really true ?
need4speed [-\]: its over?
rats [3d?\]: b forfeits = escape?
zoowatt [?\]: Is this how you win games in the EGC these days?
need4speed [-\]: penalization lose?
need4speed [-\]: lame
nocturne19 [2d\]: why can a guy lose a game like this
nocturne19 [2d\]: let them count
slowcooker [1d\]: ?
elohimmeth [3d\]: noldu yahu
need4speed [-\]: i say ban both players
DanielTom [-\]: they are checking the rules?
Windtalker [-\]: ah i wish there is video
sameasyou [3d\]: Dinerstein will not want to count...he will lose if they count
nocturne19 [2d\]: fairplay please
Zairex [1d\]: diner trickster
power [3k\]: your mom will lose
quappe [4d\]: to win like this white cant possibly be happy ??
just9x9 [-\]: lol diner did this so many times, winning a lost game by formal issues like this one, no wonder he has no sympathies
DanielTom [-\]: it's recorded that B played an illegal move
Razg [1k\]: but if i was dinerstein, i would not like a victory like that
myko [6k\]: Invalid moves shouldn't be penalized. Just take it back and play on. What's the advantage for anyone?
LeeSeTroll [3d\]: lol dinershtyne will be happy to win if he can
idontca1 [2d\]: this is so unfair!!
Nickless [-\]: yea myko
Laman [3d\]: this sucks sooo badly
lupis [2d\]: if you retake a ko without a threat and this is noticed within 3 moves the position is rewound to that point and play continues as if it hadn't happened.
TonyTiger [-\]: I am sure dinerstein would like the game to continue, but rules are the rules
Windtalker [-\]: he will take it. rightly so if it is the rule though
Gagovedo [2d\]: Rules says who plays ilegal move mut lose the game
idontca1 [2d\]: this will make diner even more popuar
TonyTiger [-\]: alex is so forgiving
kavias [4k?\]: it's a matter of honor to t accept a victory this way
need4speed [-\]: b was leading by 9
kavias [4k?\]: not
Koffein [-\]: if he hadn´t won by default he´d probably lose on time and claim the clock didn´t work ..
zoowatt [?\]: such a nice attitude
lupis [2d\]: if it's not noticed within 3 move it becomes a valid move :)
need4speed [-\]: that ko was wrthless
fisz [-\]: call Robert Jasiek
LovroKlc [-\]: :D Koffein
DanielTom [-\]: maybe the rules are unfair, that's another matter
pushcut [1d\]: please don't
nocturne19 [2d\]: what happen egc '__'
elohimmeth [3d\]: what happent ?
Garfield10 [1k\]: b won???
nocturne19 [2d\]: tell us
just9x9 [-\]: lol fisz
idontca1 [2d\]: yes Jasiek can sort it out :p
need4speed [-\]: b was won
quappe [4d\]: we need evidence
NinjaCat [7k\]: call the police
hvk [-\]: .
shusai [4k\]: ????
Windtalker [-\]: Jasiek is perfect for this
nocturne19 [2d\]: .___.
TurtleDove [5k\]: so any illegal move is a forfeit ?
Gagovedo [2d\]: if Alex called for referee than he will win
Gagovedo [2d\]: if not, it's just like nothing happened
myko [6k\]: Where are the sensationalist traits of EuroGoTV? Move the cam!
mw2a [1k\]: it should just count as a pass... punishment enough
elohimmeth [3d\]: is there anyonne to tell what happen
nocturne19 [2d\]: who called the referee
quappe [4d\]: dude i would personally feel ashamed to win this way
nocturne19 [2d\]: alex did?
Garfield10 [1k\]: live is hard near the coast :-)
idontca1 [2d\]: EGC is there lots of debate going on?
LovroKlc [-\]: someone shouldn't be punished if accidently took a ko
mw2a [1k\]: ofc they should.
rfc [-\]: rules are rules though
LovroKlc [-\]: why?
Windtalker [-\]: ashamed and ricebowl cannot be mixed together
mw2a [1k\]: illegal move is illegal
lupis [2d\]: rules state: Illegal move   If a player makes an illegal move, and if this is noticed within three moves, then the game should be unwound to the move just before the illegal move, and continued. The referee may allow an adjustment of the time.
nocturne19 [2d\]: it's unfair to play until the end and lose by such a weird mistake
Koffein [-\]: lovro, that´s life.
DanielTom [-\]: "Immediately capturing a stone that has captured in ko is illegal. This is basic to every rule system."
crouik [?\]: which rules lupis?
Liso66 [4k\]: ing rules dont punish bad ko
Razg [1k\]: this is a really the game between shindo and isumi-san in hikaru no go
Garfield10 [1k\]: where was the ilegal move?
lupis [2d\]: egf general tournament rules
power [3k\]: if you dont know illegal moves, you dont know rules. so dont play, go home and study rules
DanielTom [-\]: actually, maybe there is no penalty
LovroKlc [-\]: aye, but it isn't logical
LovroKlc [-\]: ...
LovroKlc [-\]: :)
Windtalker [-\]: Razg, that is a real Trick Move
mw2a [1k\]: lov, if illegal moves are not punished what is to stop people from "trying" illegal moves to help them win
quappe [4d\]: if a move is illegal meaning the move doesnt exist meaning black cant play it 
need4speed [-\]: it was dumb mistake, he wasnt trying to cheat since hes ahead by 8 mokus
lupis [2d\]: which superseed any other rulesets in use in egf tournaments ;)
zoowatt [?\]: so Go has now become a game of rules instead of a game between honorable players?
gggggf: sometimes people dont notice you did an illegal move, and after the game is over you may not change it so f you do  an illegal move you are punished (so you don't try your luck ;)
LovroKlc [-\]: first mistake should be forgiven
DanielTom [-\]: I think there is no penalty under Ing rules
nocturne19 [2d\]: what happened wiht the game?
power [3k\]: zoowatt, it is turnament
nocturne19 [2d\]: will it continue
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: in ING rules: 'Unintentional illegal moves are retracted without penalty'
Korf [1k\]: does this issue depend on used ruleset?
DanielTom [-\]: "unintentional"
rats [3d?\]: this is a manhood ko, playing an illegal move i imagine would really hurt your manliness
method [-\]: disrespecterstein
mw2a [1k\]: ing rules too soft. offending party should be clamped in irons
egf2k [6d\]: what illegal move?
Laman [3d\]: honour should resolve this: black should offer a lose and white shouldnt accept it
DanielTom [-\]: this one was intentional... that's the key
just9x9 [-\]: lol rats
hfdtd [2d\]: a real master  shouldn't claim the victory for such a mistake
need4speed [-\]: lamershtyein
Himiko [1k\]: maybe we should wait a while and find out what happened and what was decided, instead of insulting either player
egf2k [6d\]: what hapend here?
shusai [4k\]: last time
zoowatt [?\]: where does it say that players in a tournament has to be obnoxious, contentious and asholes for to win?
shusai [4k\]: was the same
shusai [4k\]: with a clock volume
shusai [4k\]: and he claim win
idontca1 [2d\]: k was taken without a threat egf2k
Windtalker [-\]: harakiri for black then
TurtleDove [5k\]: no, let's panic !
nukenin [4d\]: EGC2011B4 [?\]: Ondrej just recaptured the ko without making a threat
idontca1 [2d\]: ko*
Garfield10 [1k\]: and this with no livecam :-(
LeeSeTroll [3d\]: its not very profesional of dinershtyne to win this game
nocturne19 [2d\]: omg
need4speed [-\]: i say ban every players in the tournament
need4speed [-\]: and set fire to everything
salty [2d\]: @@
myko [6k\]: Ban the cameraman! :)
nocturne19 [2d\]: egc, say sth 
mw2a [1k\]: set fire to france
quappe [4d\]: what is happening ?
guest003 [-\]: strong performance of Ondrej
zoowatt [?\]: if the criteria for a tournament player is what we witness here, then yes - abolish all tournaments
lupis [2d\]: of course the fact that rules state that situations be handeled in a certain way dosn't mean that's what will happen if the players argue it out between themselves
matomatala [6d?\]: jedi council is holding a meeting
idontca1 [2d\]: EGC - we need info :(((((
Windtalker [-\]: arrrghh... why didnt we have the camera!!
power [3k\]: poor EGC
salty [2d\]: lol matomatala
yipman9p [4k\]: alexender lost
GoSuGo [4d\]: whats happening?
mw2a [1k\]: egc was only witness. he is being interrogated in private room
Liso66 [4k\]: and camera is stil going capturing empty board :( 
Laman [3d\]: black won on the board, but made an illegal move
hfdtd [2d\]: who is referee?
DanielTom [-\]: poor ondrej
just9x9 [-\]: alexander lost for instigating ondrej to take the ko before playing the threat
TurtleDove [5k\]: these journalists, no eye for a story *sigh*
rats [3d?\]: haha
need4speed [-\]: alex mind powers win the game
nocturne19 [2d\]: EGC2011B4 [?\]: Seems B forfeits the game. The referees are checking
teach [3d\]: a disgrace
hfdtd [2d\]: who are the referees?
quappe [4d\]: why would b forfeit the game ?
myko [6k\]: Did Alex hit the side of the board with a stone? :D
GoSuGo [4d\]: lol
DonMorti [6k\]: xD
salty [2d\]: haha
just9x9 [-\]: b took ko before playing threat quappe
zoowatt [?\]: more than a disgrace, bloody murder I would call it
quappe [4d\]: tell him he should win it , i want it this way 
Windtalker [-\]: we should boycott alex. hahaha
shusai [4k\]: such a way to win a game
fisz [-\]: http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/siming.html
salty [2d\]: no pain no gain ^^
need4speed [-\]: we wanna see the video of the ko fighting please eurogo
sameasyou [3d\]: Dinerstein wants students :)
LovroKlc [-\]: that is the forbidden site
Windtalker [-\]: I didn't read this part in his Trick Move book
elohimmeth [3d\]: it would be a shame for alexander i think
Gagovedo [2d\]: Too important game to be polite, I guess
need4speed [-\]: money win?
zoowatt [?\]: like all psychos say "its all rules" "its only a game" etc 
snowman [-\]: "If a player makes an illegal move, and if this is noticed within three moves, then the game should be unwound to the move just before the illegal move, and continued."
need4speed [-\]: or just ego win
TurtleDove [5k\]: tell the referee we want them to continue by taking back the move
salty [2d\]: i´d say shit happens
Windtalker [-\]: if he take the win i swear i will never again buy another book written by him nor take any of his lessons
nocturne19 [2d\]: depend on the rule
DanielTom [-\]: B made this, and maybe you don't agree with the rules
snowman [-\]: EGF General Tournament Rules
elohimmeth [3d\]: haha wind :D
salty [2d\]: pity for ondrj, but there are rules
LovroKlc [-\]: but these are Ing Simplified
nocturne19 [2d\]: anyway that's not alex's mistake if he choose to win like this, it's the life
Rawrie [3k?\]: The rules snoman just quoted
darbi [12k\]: Sorry but he won't be the one who will decides , only the layers and he is right
daniug [2d\]: shameful win for dinerstein
Windtalker [-\]: i mean it's my choice... if he takes the win i swear i will do it
zoowatt [?\]: I am glad I am not there in person, the game of Go has definitely changed in character
need4speed [-\]: i would say the guy he forgot to make the threat
rich [9k\]: you're not just talking wind, now are you?
Windtalker [-\]: i bought his books and took lessons from him but i will stop doing it if he takes this win :)
ML [3d\]: what a pity
pel [-\]: rich, :)
darbi [12k\]: rules are rules 
Windtalker [-\]: haha, i really am not joking :)
power [3k\]: Windtalker, how many his books you have?
zoowatt [?\]: maybe let laywer take over this game, they have the right mindset
DanielTom [-\]: he only wrote 1 book
quappe [4d\]: i would not say go has changed , its just another side of go serious tournament is different then lax internet game ,p
darbi [12k\]: what yu all say is only gossip
snowman [-\]: yes, and i just quoted the relevant rule
Razg [1k\]: well, alexander point of view may not be asked
elohimmeth [3d\]: if they talk with referee it means alexander wins.
daniug [2d\]: EGC,what's the news?
DanielTom [-\]: no one would buy his book if they didn't get something out of it
just9x9 [-\]: did u buy "playing ko properly?"
need4speed [-\]: yahoo style 
idontca1 [2d\]: who is the referee for this tournament?
Razg [1k\]: referees just enforce the rules
Windtalker [-\]: The Hamete book
DanielTom [-\]: it's not hamete
DanielTom [-\]: it's "New Moves", most played by pros
nocturne19 [2d\]: kind of hamete
sameasyou [3d\]: no quappe...people on KGS behave like Dinerstein at EGC, no honor, running, no greeting
need4speed [-\]: b was leading by 8-9
sameasyou [3d\]: shameful victory if he takes it
need4speed [-\]: so it wasnt bad intentionated
bazilxp [?\]: Guys relax
quappe [4d\]: not all of them i, in fact most are really nice
mw2a [1k\]: if the ko does not fit you must  acquit
sameasyou [3d\]: not all of them, indeed
rich [9k\]: I need my daily kos
bert [2d\]: regardless of his taking this win i swear i will talk to wind as i talk to my cats 
quappe [4d\]: but its the bad ones that you remember ^^
Windtalker [-\]: well, it's my choice anyway... haha
zoowatt [?\]: true, internet is probably the cause of all this - a long time ago this game was played between gentlemen, not gangsters
EGC2011B4 [?\]: According to http://www.eurogofed.org/egf/tourrules.htm, the game may be resumed, actually. The referees camed to that conclusion. 
gggggf: lol
need4speed [-\]: 4chan are gonna know about this i swear
daniug [2d\]: uraaa:)
salty [2d\]: calm down , its a game
sameasyou [3d\]: awesome!!!!
just9x9 [-\]: wow nice
DanielTom [-\]: they will continue
hvk [-\]: ?
guest0384: yes, win for justice!
daniug [2d\]: hurrah:)
Windtalker [-\]: because of the referee or because Alex said ok to continue?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Alex resigns and says he will appeal
snowman [-\]: "If a player makes an illegal move, and if this is noticed within three moves, then the game should be unwound to the move just before the illegal move, and continued."
sameasyou [3d\]: hahaha...Diner must be devastated...no win for him today
guest003 [-\]: oh are having a fuss
need4speed [-\]: there gona be pizzas heading for alex house
idontca1 [2d\]: who is the referee egc?
quappe [4d\]: anyone still cheering for white ?
rich [9k\]: wind is very serious about this.
Montchik [-\]: roflmao
quappe [4d\]: lol ?
mw2a [1k\]: what?!
just9x9 [-\]: he will appeal lol
Windtalker [-\]: ok that's it
sameasyou [3d\]: pathetic
Zairex [1d\]: ofc white ftw
sameasyou [3d\]: he will appeal
idontca1 [2d\]: pathetic is the word
quappe [4d\]: its all according to the rules isnt it ???
DanielTom [-\]: ondrej must be relieved
zoowatt [?\]: i hear comments since the TV is still live :)
Syptryn [3d\]: what happenED?
DanielTom [-\]: he will feel good after counting!
Windtalker [-\]: lol rich. i really am serious
Syptryn [3d\]: I just joined
hvk [-\]: Bּּּּ+R
hvk [-\]: .
just9x9 [-\]: next book coming: "how to get strong at appealing for a win" by ishi press
hvk [-\]: ?
mw2a [1k\]: that's a joke, right, egc?
rich [9k\]: I know, wind, just trying to mess with your sails
zoowatt [?\]: it seems like Alex will go to the committe
bert [2d\]: tv link, pls
sameasyou [3d\]: hahaha
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Nope
khal [2k?\]: Oldrejjj
mw2a [1k\]: ... wow
guest0384: alex will appeal? lmao! what a poor loser
rfc [-\]: rules are rules
zoowatt [?\]: they just cut it :(
LovroKlc [-\]: get strong at appeal
Windtalker [-\]: lol just9x9
DanielTom [-\]: lol
rich [9k\]: breakfast of champions
nocturne19 [2d\]: GC2011B4 [?\]: Alex resigns and says he will appeal
DanielTom [-\]: well, I don't actually think alex will win the appeal this time
quappe [4d\]: there were always a lot of people that critizicse dinerstein i wasnt one of them 
quappe [4d\]: but now ...
unlucky [2d\]: i dont think he will appeal
Zairex [1d\]: alex my favourite
idontca1 [2d\]: If a player makes an illegal move, and if this is noticed within three moves, then the game should be unwound to the move just before the illegal move, and continued. The referee may allow an adjustment of the time. 
unlucky [2d\]: just feels frustrated at the moment
Laman [3d\]: so, black won?
DanielTom [-\]: B won yes
nocturne19 [2d\]: what a fun game
DanielTom [-\]: for now
sameasyou [3d\]: black deserved the win
need4speed [-\]: now that everyone hates alex im on his side 
zoowatt [?\]: nice !!!!
Laman [3d\]: oh yeah!
need4speed [-\]: troll way of life
Himiko [1k\]: If Alex resigned, that is acknowledged defeat, and the rules were clear that play may continue, well, what on earth does Diner have to appeal for? 
Windtalker [-\]: the referee's decision is final? is that in the rules?
need4speed [-\]: rules are rules
DanielTom [-\]: alex will appeal
LovroKlc [-\]: I think there is appeal commite wintalker
elohimmeth [3d\]: alex is ego
elohimmeth [3d\]: dsfsdf
DanielTom [-\]: but I think B wins anyway
LovroKlc [-\]: or smthg
need4speed [-\]: i hope he wins it
mw2a [1k\]: he is appealing his own resignation
Windtalker [-\]: i see
gggggf: B+ appeal
TurtleDove [5k\]: the lawyers salary is final. this is the rule
LovroKlc [-\]: rules comitee
Razg [1k\]: appeal ? this must be a joke. As a pro, he should not even fight this ko. This is clearly a win for black.
Windtalker [-\]: let him appeal but he will lose all appeals to my wallet
Garfield10 [1k\]: shit happens
Windtalker [-\]: or paypal for that matter
DanielTom [-\]: thx for relaying, EGC211B4
tapir [1k\]: even if he appeals. the egf tournament rules are pretty clear about this.
need4speed [-\]: yes razg b is crealrly ahead
just9x9 [-\]: yes, thx ECG
Windtalker [-\]: Thanks EGC :)
quappe [4d\]: what a scoop
zoowatt [?\]: yeah thx for relaying!
QualityDr [10k?\]: Yes, thanks for the relay!
DanielTom [-\]: no mistakes (misclicks) at all
sasa264 [11k?\]: thanks!
hfdtd [2d\]: very good EGF rules
DanielTom [-\]: perfect broadcast :-)
nocturne19 [2d\]: thanks
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Was tense in the end, you can guess ^^
QualityDr [10k?\]: What time tomorrow?
bert [2d\]: thx
unlucky [2d\]: ondrej knew the rules, he made it on purpose for sure :>
Konsta [?\]: What is going to be the final judgement?
Garfield10 [1k\]: i want video from that
DanielTom [-\]: tell Ondrej congratz
need4speed [-\]: tell alex good game
miira42 [4k\]: Congratulations to Ondrej. He won on desk according to rules.
Windtalker [-\]: Ondrej on a roll vs Russia
guest0384: hurray ondrej! well done
quappe [4d\]: thx too egc
lupis [2d\]: appealing is a usefull tool for consistency in referee decisions and fairness of the rules. if a player percieves there to be a mistake in either it's better to investigate it that to let it fester.
Zorba [5d\]: why will he appeal please ?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Hi ! Here is an official referee from the tournament. The decision is : the game should continue before the illegal move. So it did continue, but Alex resigned. And he just wrote up a letter to the appeal committee, which will meet tomorrow. We'll of course let you know what was their decision at least.
TurtleDove [5k\]: was this staged for TV to boost ratings ;) ?
guest003 [-\]: Ondrej has won on the board too, so i'd rather not say won on regulation
matomatala [6d?\]: always prepared with letter paper
crouik [?\]: thanks, referee!
just9x9 [-\]: ty official referee
])