(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[9000]OT[3x60 byo-yomi]
GN[Zhuyeqing Tea European Go Congress 2011 Round 6 board 4]PW[Ondrej SILT]PB[Jan SIMARA]WR[6d]BR[5d]DT[2011-08-01]EV[Zhuyeqing Tea - EGC 2011 - Main Tournament]RO[Round 6]PC[Bordeaux - France]US[Thumb]C[SqueezeIt [2d\]: wow, czech masters challenging each other
Pulcik [?\]: :(((
lbc [?\]: I wait for q15 q8 q3 opening..)
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Hello all. A little Monday delay. Both players just arrived.
]
;B[pd]
;W[dd]
;B[pp]
;W[dq]C[Laman [3d\]: this is hard... who to cheer for?
SqueezeIt [2d\]: yeah..
Laman [3d\]: whoever wins has pretty sure ticket to the final 8
zoowatt [?\]: final 8?
Laman [3d\]: European championship... 7 rounds everyone play in the main tournament, then 8 best Europeans go to knockout finals
Laman [3d\]: if i recall correctly
]
;B[pj]C[zoowatt [?\]: ah, had no idea it was like this
TurtleDove [5k\]: wasn't like that last year
Laman [3d\]: yes, it is a new system
zoowatt [?\]: do you carry the result with you or is it a clean slate?
]
;W[nc]C[SqueezeIt [2d\]: that sucks :D
Laman [3d\]: the previous one also sucked
zoowatt [?\]: and only Europeans btw? No one outside Europe can be in?
SqueezeIt [2d\]: true :) but I how is the pairing done then?
Laman [3d\]: zoowatt: clean slate, only you shouldn't play with players you already played. and only Europeans, that was the key improvement on the previous system
TurtleDove [5k\]: where can we see results table so far for this tournament ?
Laman [3d\]: SqueezeIt: fold pairing, the first play the last. modified to avoid previous matches
Laman [3d\]: TurtleDove: http://www.egc2011.eu/index.php/en/results-pairing/132-main-round
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Sorry I'm not aware of the exact system. The final 8 pairing is Swiss system, yes
SqueezeIt [2d\]: but ok, let's say ilja shikshit and ondrej get to the play-off final, but they have already played each other, so there is no final at real?
Laman [3d\]: i hope i am correct about this, i only read it when it was being designed and discussed at L19
zoowatt [?\]: any link for these rules anyone?
Laman [3d\]: SqueezeIt: if they have to play, they play. if they can play someone else, they play someone else
SqueezeIt [2d\]: http://www.egc2011.eu/index.php/en/tournaments/98-regle-du-jeu-egc-2011
Laman [3d\]: or maybe here: http://eurogofed.org/egf/ecrules.htm
]
;B[pf]C[zoowatt [?\]: thanks for link
TurtleDove [5k\]: committees produce some strange solutions :)
SqueezeIt [2d\]: yeah, thanks :) so it means that Ondrej might play ilja or alex again in order to become a new champion?
zoowatt [?\]: and losers in knockout gets to play in the main tournament again?
Laman [3d\]: yes
Laman [3d\]: (yes to both)
]
;W[pb]C[zoowatt [?\]: this has been tried before with mixed results, any recent experiences?
]
;B[lc]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: it would have been easier just to find the highest=placed European and give them the title "European Champion"
Laman [3d\]: TurtleDove: it was considered unsatisfying because when there were many Asians in the tournament, the Europeans didn't get to play enough games among themselves
zoowatt [?\]: the problem with the McMahon is the fact of non-europeans disrupting things
TurtleDove [5k\]: of course whoever wins the tournament is still tournament winner
TurtleDove [5k\]: oh, ok
]
;W[qc]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: you can see what they are trying to do
zoowatt [?\]: its reasonable, and lets see how it works this time
]
;B[oc]
;W[ob]C[Laman [3d\]: the actual system is also considered unoptimal, but when there was a discussion and voting in EGF about the change last year, there were more proposed solutions and this one came out like a sort of compromise
]
;B[nd]
;W[md]
;B[mc]
;W[nb]C[Laman [3d\]: but i dont remember what the other ideas were
TurtleDove [5k\]: I have become a fan of Ondrej after watching his game last week against Mr Kim
SqueezeIt [2d\]: :)
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Most tournament systems are made to produce a clear winner, but they are all quite bad at producing a clear 12th or 14th...and suppose 20 very strong Asians suddenly registered
Liso66 [4k\]: I miss that - what happend in that game? 
Mimiru [5d\]: check gosensations.com?
Algohol [1d\]: i hope flashback wins
TurtleDove [5k\]: he should have won I think . ended even on the board but opponent won by the 7.5 komi
]
;B[ne]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: Yes, that "komi" thingy is unfair^^
TurtleDove [5k\]: lol
TurtleDove [5k\]: I only know Japanese counting. all this stuff about " B hands over one stone if he plays last" just confuses me
TurtleDove [5k\]: why can't they keep it simple ?
Laman [3d\]: TurtleDove: actually territory scoring make some things more complicated
EGC2011B4 [?\]: It becomes very natural once you're used to it (obviously)
Laman [3d\]: like the bent four in the corner and others less common
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Btw, it's rather "W hands over a stone if he passes first"
TurtleDove [5k\]: there you go, I knew I didn't understand it :P
EGC2011B4 [?\]: They  just have to play the same number of moves
TurtleDove [5k\]: I doubt if anybody else does either
]
;W[jp]
;B[rd]
;W[rc]
;B[cn]
;W[cp]C[Laman [3d\]: black's opening doesn't impress me so far
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Me neither. I really don't like sanrensei if it's not yonrensei
EGC2011B4 [?\]: (K4 hurts)
Keanureave [8k\]: and i thought black was in better pos
EGC2011B4 [?\]: He might well be Keanu, I know nothing, just my taste there^^^
]
;B[ck]
;W[nq]C[Laman [3d\]: sure, a 5d won't fall much behind in 23 moves, but i think white is doing slightly better
]
;B[pn]
;W[ci]C[Keanureave [8k\]: okay
]
;B[en]C[Keanureave [8k\]: upper right corner just seems too good for black
Keanureave [8k\]: especially if he can kill N16
Laman [3d\]: (by the way, this 3d rank is of course a fake, i am just a weak 2k EGF)
TurtleDove [5k\]: it is better for B there but it is W's 3rd corner
]
;W[dm]C[Laman [3d\]: Keanu: yeah, just from feeling i would agree, influence often looks bigger than territory. but from experience i can say it means no real troubles for white
Keanureave [8k\]: okay
]
;B[cm]C[Keanureave [8k\]: maybe black´s little overconcentrated?
Backflash [9k\]: nah, many good invasions
Backflash [9k\]: w can't close them all
TurtleDove [5k\]: I like W f4, but does it keep enough pressure on those stones or can B tenuki ?
martin3141 [3d\]: g4 
Backflash [9k\]: f4 gote cash
Backflash [9k\]: i guess any w move goteish at this point
Backflash [9k\]: exept something like b8
EGC2011B4 [?\]: I think I saw both f4 and G4 in this shape. At least I would hesitate. G4 rather, maybe.
Backflash [9k\]: lower?
TurtleDove [5k\]: if W plays somwhere else, say W e11, then B f4 looks annoying
]
;W[cf]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: ok, we'll see if B agrees
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Takemyia visits the room. Always nice to see.
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Yuki Shigeno and Osawa Narumi are there as well
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Back to the game : it is more or less the purpose of D7 to decide whether W will add a move around G4
EGC2011B4 [?\]: If D7-D6, it's a definite yes, but B has more aji on the left
EGC2011B4 [?\]: C7 is more solid a living base, but the D6 weakness makes it easier for W to tenuki
Laman [3d\]: ah, nice, EGC
TurtleDove [5k\]: I guess B is looking at that area or maybe f17 area
Damaging [10k\]: beyond my league :)
TurtleDove [5k\]: B f17 would prob get a pincer in reply cos the W stones on the left are now strong
TurtleDove [5k\]: dunno, just amusing ourselves while we wait
EGC2011B4 [?\]: N5 maybe? It's a turning point
]
;B[ep]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: Seems like B will rather choose N5 later (than M3 or H3)
]
;W[fr]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: Correct shape (don't push from behind)
]
;B[lo]C[Novalys [1d\]: w could also E5 and fight 
Novalys [1d\]: Ah sorry i thought E4 was at F4 ^^
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Oh^^ M5 not N5. I never play hoshis, how could I know.
TurtleDove [5k\]: how does W control the fight which is starting on the lower side while keeping right side invadeable ?
TurtleDove [5k\]: r3 start ?
TurtleDove [5k\]: q8 so tempting
Saimon [2d\]: Damn, I don't know for whom to cheer 
TurtleDove [5k\]: hahha :)
Saimon [2d\]: go both! \\o/ 
EGC2011B4 [?\]: On this move, "Go W !". Just alternate^^
Saimon [2d\]: :-))
Laman [3d\]: TurtleDove: i am not sure about q8. i think r8 more standard
]
;W[jn]C[SqueezeIt [2d\]: this game is so slow -.-
TurtleDove [5k\]: I don't do standard :P just invent it
]
;B[lq]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: I don't know about k6, I guess it says "no moyo today"
TurtleDove [5k\]: must r3 now surely ?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: It seems largest point at least
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Next W's worry could be B G3, or central moves threatening it
]
;W[ql]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: aha !
TurtleDove [5k\]: couldn't resist :D
EGC2011B4 [?\]: P8, R5, Q5, R4, R6 etc poissible
Backflash [9k\]: move 36 still no big fight, something is wrong
TurtleDove [5k\]: stick around , must fight now
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Choice of P6 would mean that B will attack at G3 I think
]
;B[qj]C[martin3141 [3d\]: I like this move
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Yes, surely more efficient: if W gets out, B has a possible karami
TurtleDove [5k\]: p8 or r5 maybe
SqueezeIt [2d\]: what does karami mean?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: A splitting attack on 2 weak groups
EGC2011B4 [?\]: Best being running them close to each other and splitting at the last (best) moment
SqueezeIt [2d\]: thank you
]
;W[qq]
;B[pq]C[EpicPhail [1k\]: q2
]
;W[pr]
;B[qp]
;W[rr]
;B[rq]
;W[qr]
;B[km]C[Laman [3d\]: now black has built some serious potential
TurtleDove [5k\]: yes, seems W o10 or similar soon
]
;W[kj]
;B[jm]
;W[gp]
;B[ij]C[kjhg: p10
TurtleDove [5k\]: L12 for me I think
]
;W[ji]
;B[ii]
;W[jg]
;B[ih]
;W[lf]
;B[hf]C[martin3141 [3d\]: m16 
]
;W[me]
;B[ic]
;W[nf]
;B[of]
;W[nh]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: sorry everyone the server crashed
QualityDr [10k?\]: Any injuries? =8-)
EGC2011B4 [?\]: not that i know of :P
]
;B[mj]C[QualityDr [10k?\]: All you folks at EGC are doing well w/ relays; many thanks!
Backflash [9k\]: EGC2011B4 lets wait for finals, someone surely would use goban to hit somebody
]
;W[mi]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: go players are calmer than you think [=
]
;B[nj]
;W[ph]
;B[qh]
;W[ec]
;B[ke]
;W[og]
;B[pg]
;W[lj]
;B[gc]C[TurtleDove [5k\]: I thought W was comfortably ahead until I counted. now not sure
]
;W[fb]C[Mikinek [3k\]: now san san for B impossible...
Mikinek [3k\]: attack lower side or defend o4?
Mikinek [3k\]: or use the potential and d11?
]
;B[mg]C[Mikinek [3k\]: wow
Backins [2k\]: only chance for B
]
;W[mf]
;B[mh]C[Mikinek [3k\]: EGC, hoe many rounds does the tournament have together? now is 6th round, so how many left?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: there are &à rounds
TurtleDove [5k\]: 10
EGC2011B4 [?\]: 10
Mikinek [3k\]: thx
Mikinek [3k\]: cant see solution for b...
TurtleDove [5k\]: m12 ?
Opa [2d?\]: m12
gisel [4d\]: m12 m11
]
;W[ni]
;B[kh]
;W[jh]
;B[kf]
;W[kg]
;B[lg]
;W[lh]
;B[li]C[ArtemiyGo [?\]: l1
ArtemiyGo [?\]: u
yoof [2k?\]: q11 could be a fight
ArtemiyGo [?\]: l16?
]
;W[pi]
;B[oi]C[Mikinek [3k\]: will be :)
]
;W[ng]
;B[lh]
;W[qi]
;B[ri]
;W[oh]C[bleen [5k\]: die
Opa [2d?\]: s12
bleen [5k\]: m15
bleen [5k\]: ah 1 lib
bleen [5k\]: sry
yoof [2k?\]: maybe s10 more solid than s12?
]
;B[rg]
;W[oj]C[senteftw [1d\]: s10 leaves much aji at the upper right
Koffein [-\]: s10 does not work. s10 r13 s12 r14 q15 s15 
SqueezeIt [2d\]: how much time do they have left, please?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: I cant see...
SqueezeIt [2d\]: never mind :)
]
;B[nl]
;W[rj]C[yoof [2k?\]: huh, I was thinking q9
TurtleDove [5k\]: W needs a miracle
EGC2011B4 [?\]: b reached to 10
Wazato [3d?\]: why?
]
;B[rk]
;W[qk]C[EGC2011B4 [?\]: 10 min
yoof [2k?\]: oh, if q9 p9 q8 p8 q7 m9 nets
]
;B[sj]
;W[pk]
;B[rj]
;W[ml]C[yoof [2k?\]: the L18 idea is gonna be kosai
Zorba [5d\]: alive
]
;B[lk]C[salty [2d\]: not even zen can kill that
]
;W[mk]C[bleen [5k\]: x.x
]
;B[nk]
;W[mm]C[SqueezeIt [2d\]: w cool
Opa [2d?\]: well done w
senteftw [1d\]: black will resign soon i think^^
]
;B[nm]
;W[kl]
;B[mn]
;W[kk]
;B[rp]
;W[sr]
;B[iq]C[yoof [2k?\]: oh d'uh that's the 2nd eye right there, yeah
]
;W[ok]C[senteftw [1d\]: blacks fighting spirit is amazing^^
]
;B[gq]
;W[fq]
;B[fp]
;W[hq]
;B[hp]
;W[gr]
;B[go]
;W[dj]
;B[cg]
;W[bg]
;B[bf]
;W[dg]
;B[ce]
;W[df]C[senteftw [1d\]: why they are playing so fast?
EGC2011B4 [?\]: W+RES
Kubica [6d\]: silt master
SqueezeIt [2d\]: nice game! thank you EGC
EGC2011B4 [?\]: you are wellcome!!!
Laman [3d\]: thank you
DejMiPivo [8k?\]: thanks
])