(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Chinese]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[9000]OT[1x60 byo-yomi]
GN[European Go Congress 2009 board 2 round 2]PW[Frank Janssen]PB[Oh Chi-Min]WR[6d]BR[7d]DT[2009-07-27]EV[European Go Congress 2009 board 2 round 2]RO[2]PC[Groningen, The Netherlands]US[E. Wester]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Good morning everyone. I'm afraid that due to technical difficulties with our host, we will not have a live video feed today either for the second board.
mcw85 [7k\]: EuroGo: Are the results posted on the internet yet?
noned [2d\]: http://www.egc2009.nl/?q=node/1472
mcw85 [7k\]: Thank you.
Reym: yep thanks noned, i completetly missed this "wall list" link
mcw85 [7k\]: I checked last night before bed, they must have just added it.
noned [2d\]: np :)
mcw85 [7k\]: Is black's clock ticking away?
]
;B[pd]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: I was looking for Frank :P
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: He is coming soon now
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Frank has arrived
]
;W[dd]
;B[pq]
;W[dp]
;B[cf]
;W[fc]
;B[bd]
;W[cc]
;B[ci]
;W[po]
;B[pm]
;W[no]
;B[nq]
;W[lo]
;B[pj]
;W[lq]
;B[fq]C[seppy [?\]: p2!
]
;W[eq]
;B[fp]
;W[cn]
;B[ip]C[Violence [-\]: So Black declares he will win the tournament
Violence [-\]: how bold
mcw85 [7k\]: Has he?
mcw85 [7k\]: Who won last year?
]
;W[in]
;B[jq]
;W[mq]
;B[np]C[Violence [-\]: check RustySword's profile
Highwayman [1d\]: taranu,among europeans
freekevin [14k\]: hmm
freekevin [14k\]: is  that white's turn ?
mcw85 [7k\]: Oh, Chi Min has.
mcw85 [7k\]: "Among  Europeans?" Isn't this all EGF?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: This is an open tournament, but the championship is european, so only a european can become champion of Europe
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Park Jong Wook won in Sweden last year
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: See http://egc2008.eu/en/congress/scoreboard/index.php
TeeSushi [2d\]: i wonder if there will be a european in the top 5 this year
]
;W[mp]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Catalin was shared 5th last year
]
;B[rq]C[mcw85 [7k\]: Well, Oh Chi Min lives in Europe, so can he be the European Champ? Or is it native Europeans?
TeeSushi [2d\]: native europeans
mcw85 [7k\]: I see, thanks.
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: If your passport says you're European
TeeSushi [2d\]: i dont know the exact terms ... but something like this at least ^^
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: E.g., Guo Juan has won it a few times I believe
zxccxz [2d?\]: ugh, if you're asian you're asian, not european, u just live there.
mcw85 [7k\]: I see. I hope a game between Taranu and Dinerchtein is shown on KGS.
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Guo Juan is a full citizen of The Netherlands
zxccxz [2d?\]: she's still chinese
TeeSushi [2d\]: she is born chinese maybe
mcw85 [7k\]: ... That's a very bad attitude, in my opinion.
zxccxz [2d?\]: when u get stamped on your passport another citizenship, u don't magically change your heritage, race, etc..
TeeSushi [2d\]: but if she gets citizienship of netherlands than she is european ^^
zxccxz [2d?\]: at any rate, this, like most other things on kgs, is just an opinion.
bkb [4k\]: tolerance is usual in go-community, so it's a bit weird to start such a discussion
Violence [-\]: Well, I mean, I think we can take a page from China, Japan, and Korea
Violence [-\]: Japan in particular, the strongest player in the country is often not Japanese
Violence [-\]: but he's considered the strongest Japanese player.
noned [2d\]: b has slightly better position to me
hfdtd [1d\]: Guo has married a dutch man, since then she is dutch and was european champion in 1994-1997
Orc [4d\]: there is no country bounder in GO, its global
Violence [-\]: So I'm glad that you don't have to be born in Europe to claim the Euro Championship
bkb [4k\]: agreed with Orc
zxccxz [2d?\]: well, that's where we differ, i think u should be born in europe to claim the championship
Violence [-\]: Why?
Lionking [2d\]: but being asian, it's just not fair
Lionking [2d\]: :D
Violence [-\]: Go Seigen was the Japan's strongest player for a while, but he was Chinese
Violence [-\]: Cho Chikun was Korean. Cho U is Taiwanese
menchi [?\]: being asian is like doping
]
;W[ml]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Can you please continue this discussion in another chatroom? ;)
Violence [-\]: yet all of them represent Japan in international tournaments
Lionking [2d\]: so this IS a chatroom?
]
;B[qf]C[Violence [-\]: Haha, alright, I'll stop
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Actually it isn't, it's a kibitz room ;)
Lionking [2d\]: you just stated it is one :(
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Can you continue the discussion whether this is a chatroom in another kibitz room? ;)
Lionking [2d\]: ;)
Lionking [2d\]: *blink* ;)
Lionking [2d\]: sure ;)
mcw85 [7k\]: I do prefer black's position.
Lionking [2d\]: me too
Lionking [2d\]: n8 seems slow, eager to find out what white wants with it
Processus [2k\]: what zbout Q 18 here
Processus [2k\]: black n 8 is a great moove
Lionking [2d\]: why
Processus [2k\]: so i think white play here first no?
Processus [2k\]: because that's attack white gorup and that make moyo for black no?
Lionking [2d\]: maybe, but n8 feels slow
Processus [2k\]: what about Q 18 here?
]
;W[pc]C[Processus [2k\]: ook
]
;B[oc]
;W[ob]
;B[qc]
;W[pb]
;B[nc]C[Lionking [2d\]: chi-min playing blitz again
takagawa13 [5k?\]: its round 2
mcw85 [7k\]: Maybe be, but playing good, too.
]
;W[rc]C[mcw85 [7k\]: Indeed, it is.
]
;B[qd]
;W[nb]C[Akisame [8k\]: he will win this tournament
]
;B[mc]
;W[qb]C[Akisame [8k\]: oh chi-min
]
;B[rd]
;W[rb]C[mcw85 [7k\]: He has declared it.
Processus [2k\]: look
Processus [2k\]: if white doesn't play n8
]
;B[mj]
;W[id]C[Processus [2k\]: now black plays that's moove :)
SSStylish [3k?\]: Isn't white already far behind?
]
;B[kj]C[Ephemere [2d\]: hard to put it this way but w stones are a lot less efficient
mcw85 [7k\]: Still early.
Ephemere [2d\]: namely: j16 and the o5 group...
mcw85 [7k\]: N4 stones aren't nice for W.
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: time left for white: 1:52, black: 2:27
Lionking [2d\]: black used 3 minutes? :D
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: indeed
mcw85 [7k\]: Someone should tell im to hurry up.
Lionking [2d\]: :D
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: both players have left the board at the moment
mcw85 [7k\]: Going to the bathroom to look at their crib sheets.
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: and they are back
Kratzdrink [2k\]: in Hamburg Oh Chi-Min played all games beside the one against in-seong within 30 minutes
]
;W[fr]
;B[gr]
;W[er]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Oh is thinking hard right now
mcw85 [7k\]: Can white play moves ike this when he is behind? :-/
]
;B[on]C[SSStylish [3k?\]: Maybe someone will punish him this time :)
]
;W[oo]
;B[mm]C[Novalys [2k\]: Moves like what ?
mcw85 [7k\]: F2.
Novalys [2k\]: it was very big
Novalys [2k\]: it removes the invasion and makes black weak
Sheeple [3k\]: big gote endgame
mcw85 [7k\]: Slow and gote.
Novalys [2k\]: not necessarily endgame
Novalys [2k\]: Now that  F3 is weaker,  m3 is stronger if want to move
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: black invasion wouldn've have been endgame
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: so white's move wasn't endgame either
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: *wouldn't
Novalys [2k\]: thanks eurogo ;)
Sheeple [3k\]: hey this #2 eurogotv has an opinion :)
Novalys [2k\]: yeah boxking watching the game
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: sorry, I'm new to this :P
mcw85 [7k\]: Still think it is slow. :-P
holynec [?\]: i forgive you eurogotv2
holynec [?\]: i like opinions
Novalys [2k\]: appears slow to you probably but it looked like one of the last big point
Novalys [2k\]: For w and b
Novalys [2k\]: i'm sure chi min will get somethin really nice against F3 soon
mcw85 [7k\]: He will attack his own stones?
Sheeple [3k\]: i think that's exactly what he meant :)
holynec [?\]: black mustve studied bottom shape a lot
Novalys [2k\]: oups white sorry *
mcw85 [7k\]: :-P
dutchman [3d\]: many men do
Novalys [2k\]: I though chi min was white because there is secure cash everywhere, as chi min often does ^^
Novalys [2k\]: thought*
Sheeple [3k\]: i bet he treats right side as mostly cash
]
;W[lm]
;B[mn]
;W[ln]
;B[hn]
;W[hm]
;B[gn]
;W[io]
;B[hp]C[mcw85 [7k\]: N5 is worth quite a few points?
Mukti [4d\]: N5 does not work, w plays P7
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: then tesuji at p7?
mcw85 [7k\]: Ahh, I figured there was something I did not see.
holynec [?\]: right side more like a bank
holynec [?\]: ;)
Mukti [4d\]: B shoudl have 35+ in the bank, plus about 6 in LR+4 in B + 6 at L making 51
Mukti [4d\]: White has about 18 in LL+6 in TR+16 in LR + komi = 46
Mukti [4d\]: w move
Mukti [4d\]: It feels a bit easier for b
Novalys [2k\]: Looks hard for w to do something about the right side with his weak group : /
Edelweiss [-\]: W is thinking hard, maybe this p7 is not so tesuji...
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: komi is 8 points with black winning when equal points, so 7.5
Mukti [4d\]: OK, thx
]
;W[ll]C[Sheeple [3k\]: which rules?
]
;B[ol]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: ING
Mukti [4d\]: C9 is the last big move, but w feels a bit worried about his cener group
Mukti [4d\]: But if b gets C8 the gap in terr. becomes too big
Edelweiss [-\]: difficult for W to tenuki now
Edelweiss [-\]: if W c9, B N5 maybe
Mukti [4d\]: I do not understand M8 well...
Edelweiss [-\]: N5 bigger for cash
Sheeple [3k\]: w can afford to tenuki this much less than c9
]
;W[nl]
;B[cl]C[Edelweiss [-\]: :s
Edelweiss [-\]: W is late now
Mukti [4d\]: why did w play M8 - he lost sente now...
Sheeple [3k\]: he felt the cut was too big?
hui [1k\]: try to keep some aji maybe on the right side?
Edelweiss [-\]: the biggest problem is that his group is not alive yet
Edelweiss [-\]: and only black stones around
Sheeple [3k\]: yes, and curiously c8 was attacking :)
]
;W[nh]C[Edelweiss [-\]: B K8 is dangerous
Sheeple [3k\]: making another group?
]
;B[nk]C[Edelweiss [-\]: it's his only chance to win
SakanaEio [3d\]: gotta keep the cash rather balanced I guess
]
;W[li]
;B[lj]
;W[lg]C[mcw85 [7k\]: White running like this will hurt his lower group.
]
;B[je]
;W[jd]
;B[ke]C[isoparm [3k\]: k 12
]
;W[jg]
;B[ie]C[Novalys [2k\]: looks like all this is painful for J5 
Sheeple [3k\]: somehow before o12 it didn't feel this over
]
;W[ji]C[SakanaEio [3d\]: if W can manage his weak groups well then he still has a chance
]
;B[ik]C[Edelweiss [-\]: he can manage his dead groups ? ;)
]
;W[il]C[zyklop [1d\]: w center group is not dead
SakanaEio [3d\]: tough, I know :)
Edelweiss [-\]: K13 group is really thin
zyklop [1d\]: seems like
]
;B[he]C[Edelweiss [-\]: B will get big soon
SakanaEio [3d\]: EuroGo, mind telling us the time?
]
;W[hd]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: They put the clock on the other side, so I have to walk around for that. I will check when they have a break
mcw85 [7k\]: H11?
SakanaEio [3d\]: sure, thanks :)
]
;B[hg]
;W[hh]
;B[ih]
;W[ii]
;B[hi]
;W[gh]
;B[ig]
;W[hk]C[holynec [?\]: how is fran klooking
holynec [?\]: sweat pouring down his neck?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: moving out of the room
Edelweiss [-\]: go glock xD
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: and he doesn't look stressed
zyklop [1d\]: w seems connected
SakanaEio [3d\]: I think W did well here
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: w: 1:21, b: 2:20
]
;B[gi]C[SakanaEio [3d\]: thanks :)
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: 10 mins used by Oh
Lionking [2d\]: :D
TeeSushi [2d\]: ouch
mcw85 [7k\]: He must be saving his time for drinking.
Sheeple [3k\]: nah, he just thinks on w time.
]
;W[jk]C[TeeSushi [2d\]: when i play this fast my opponents are always very puzzled ^^
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: yes, he keeps studying the board, so that seems the trick here
]
;B[fh]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Frank however often looks away and goes to make a photo e.g.
TeeSushi [2d\]: thinking on the opponent time is quite easy
holynec [?\]: photo?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: yes, he has his camera with him
holynec [?\]: photo of the game?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: no
TeeSushi [2d\]: photos of the egc
SakanaEio [3d\]: "Oh, look over here"
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: yes, so that's part of his time lost
SakanaEio [3d\]: *blitz*
holynec [?\]: are there pics of the egc posted somewhere yet? :\]
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: I'm not sure, I will check with the organization after the game
crouik [?\]: EuroGoTV2, please see your private chat
holynec [?\]: So eurogo, how is the EGC so far?
holynec [?\]: drink zhuyeqing tea yet?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: not yet, probably will today. I have to focus on the game now though, don't want to miss any moves ;)
]
;W[qm]C[zyklop [1d\]: w r12 possible ?
]
;B[qn]
;W[pi]C[Edelweiss [-\]: EuroGO, is there a live stream of this game ?
mcw85 [7k\]: Just of the first board.
Edelweiss [-\]: erf :/
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: No, technical difficulties with the host
Novalys [2k\]: w aggressive
mcw85 [7k\]: W has to be?
Vondel [2k\]: hah W is kiai: now that his group is strong ;)
]
;B[oi]C[mcw85 [7k\]: Kiai?
TeeSushi [2d\]: kihap
zyklop [1d\]: think he must reduc be qite a lot
]
;W[qq]
;B[qp]
;W[oq]C[TeeSushi [2d\]: battlecry
]
;B[or]C[celuiqui77 [3k\]: q4
]
;W[oh]
;B[ph]
;W[pg]
;B[qi]
;W[qh]
;B[pi]
;W[qg]
;B[ki]C[holynec [?\]: r3 and r7 looking awkward
]
;W[oe]
;B[od]
;W[me]
;B[kd]
;W[kc]
;B[lc]
;W[kb]C[Sheeple [3k\]: b17 soon i guess
]
;B[kh]C[Edelweiss [-\]: strange sounds on livecam1
]
;W[rf]C[mcw85 [7k\]: Yes, audio is messed up.
]
;B[pf]
;W[of]
;B[ne]
;W[nf]
;B[rh]C[TeeSushi [2d\]: yikes
Sheeple [3k\]: poor w
zyklop [1d\]: w is meesd up too ?
zyklop [1d\]: messed
Sheeple [3k\]: little aji, i can't see any plan to get out
Rossco [4k\]: isn't there a cut at m16?
zyklop [1d\]: same with me
Edelweiss [-\]: W seems dead :s
Rossco [4k\]: nm 
mcw85 [7k\]: m16 m15 
hui [1k\]: no cut
holynec [?\]: eurogotv2, any way we could get a scribe or camera on board 8? ;)
chicane [2k\]: w is so dead
zyklop [1d\]: holynec, please
mcw85 [7k\]: Shikshin Ilya - Dinerchtein Alexandre
mcw85 [7k\]: They both won their first round.
Falkbeer [1d\]: rusty is stronger than both of them
mcw85 [7k\]: I would like to see him versus Taranu or Dinerchtein.
Sheeple [3k\]: you might already tomorrow
Edelweiss [-\]: Does W looks disappointed ? Or is he thinking anymore ?
takanashi [7d\]: come,shikshin against dinerchtein much better than this
takanashi [7d\]: wasnt it EGC?
maligo [4d\]: hi
maligo [4d\]: takanashi
takanashi [7d\]: or korean tutorialo grande againnst old eurpean ?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: White has resigned
mcw85 [7k\]: Thanks.
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: He was thinking a long time
Sheeple [3k\]: well, good job
Reym: thanks eurogotv!
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Hope you enjoyed it and see you tomorrow!
Sheeple [3k\]: what was final times btw?
takanashi [7d\]: hope you show us european clash next time 
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: w: 1:05, b: 2:15
takanashi [7d\]: specially if there was game shikshin vs dinerchtein
zyklop [1d\]: thx eurogotv2
])