(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[Ilya Shikshin]PB[Antti Törmänen]WR[7d]BR[6d]DT[2010-07-25]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[MaxMakinen [2k\]: oh.. this will be an interesting match :D
lalicoasa [4k\]: go Ilya!
shinosei [16k\]: everyone wants to eatch these games
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: players are starting about now
]
;B[dd]
;W[dp]
;B[qd]C[lalicoasa [4k\]: gg ilya
]
;W[qp]
;B[op]
;W[oq]C[MaxMakinen [2k\]: go antti :)
Moiraine7 [5k\]: ilya all the way
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Japanese rules, komi 6,5
]
;B[pp]
;W[pq]
;B[qo]
;W[nq]
;B[kd]C[miao [6d\]: i think black will win
adhitthana [2d\]: antti is fredda ?
miao [6d\]: chances are equal
miao [6d\]: no
MaxMakinen [2k\]: no, antti is antti, fredda is fredda :D
miao [6d\]: antto is tien
MaxMakinen [2k\]: they're both playing in the tournament though
miao [6d\]: antti
N4KED [1d\]: broadcast is frozen
mihi [6d\]: chances are 60-40:P
juhop [1d?\]: must have been antti's plan, played L16 so quickly
miao [6d\]: no
miao [6d\]: i don´t think ilya is aware of anttis strengh
MaxMakinen [2k\]: lets hope that
miao [6d\]: so i feel like antti will crush
adhitthana [2d\]: antti doesnt play online so much
miao [6d\]: yes
adhitthana [2d\]: Iet on w
adhitthana [2d\]: I bet on w
SuperBuddy [1d\]: antti has a kgs account?
miao [6d\]: tien
ThaElf [-\]: Sure
MaxMakinen [2k\]: he has some known and some secret :D
BigMac [4k\]: i hate the avalanche joseki...black's shape is bad
miao [6d\]: w 8.5d and b 7.8d
Dagobert [3d\]: bad shape is relative
miao [6d\]: i think
miao [6d\]: maybe stronger
MaxMakinen [2k\]: but yeah.. should be quite an even game going by kgs accounts :)
miao [6d\]: b
]
;W[pj]C[miao [6d\]: depends on how his mood is
Koukkaaja [3d\]: q10 so vaque move
]
;B[pg]C[miao [6d\]: hm
]
;W[rp]C[adhitthana [2d\]: and fredda is fredda?
miao [6d\]: thats antti style
ThaElf [-\]: Leaves the game interesting playing moves not often seen ;)
adhitthana [2d\]: q10 typial for Ilya
miao [6d\]: q13 typical for antti
adhitthana [2d\]: a typial game so far
miao [6d\]: because he is very good at setteling
BigMac [4k\]: lol
adhitthana [2d\]: typical
miao [6d\]: not that typical adhitthana
N4KED [1d\]: high chinese is controversial
adhitthana [2d\]: so is Ilya
]
;B[ql]C[adhitthana [2d\]: Ilya can adapt to opponents game very well
]
;W[ok]C[BigMac [4k\]: board 1 started
adhitthana [2d\]: so who is fredda?
adhitthana [2d\]: is he finnisch also?
MaxMakinen [2k\]: fredda is fredrik blomback, 5dan swedish
adhitthana [2d\]: 5d only?
]
;B[om]C[adhitthana [2d\]: I thought he was better
MaxMakinen [2k\]: well, he did play better than that at this years world amateur games in hangzhou
ThaElf [-\]: Fin vs Swe? Ought to be tough :P
adhitthana [2d\]: who is from swe?
MaxMakinen [2k\]: noone in this game
ThaElf [-\]: Bah... Just jumping to conclusion... didn't check it all :(
adhitthana [2d\]: ok b settled
]
;W[qk]C[blackstork [?\]: why r8 and not q8, b feels too enclosed for my taste
adhitthana [2d\]: w will invade soon
]
;B[pl]
;W[ml]C[adhitthana [2d\]: R8 by far the better shape
blackstork [?\]: you think so?
StefanRadu [1k\]: how old is tien?
adhitthana [2d\]: to settle, yes
BigMac [4k\]: who is tien?
]
;B[mn]
;W[no]C[BigMac [4k\]: black or white?
adhitthana [2d\]: none
blackstork [?\]: b is hardly settled
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Black
BigMac [4k\]: lol
WorldCop [2k\]: w not using his time
MaxMakinen [2k\]: antti törmänen, black, is tien
WorldCop [2k\]: i wonder if he underestimates b
lamwu [?\]: seemd black cannot run out
BigMac [4k\]: black very very bad shape.....
adhitthana [2d\]: was n6  correct?
BigMac [4k\]: feels like being squeezed
Murugandi [4d\]: how old is Antti?
StefanRadu [1k\]: thats my question too.. no one seems to know.
Eilinen [-\]: Hm
]
;B[nk]C[wingnoll [12k\]: interesting move
MaxMakinen [2k\]: something like 19-20 or so
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Over 18 but under 22
vaudevil: 20 or 21 according to profile "ten"
Murugandi [4d\]: k cool tx
ThaElf [-\]: B seems to go for instant settle. Or planning out for whole board... Would be interesting indeed.
Eilinen [-\]: It's old : p
Eilinen [-\]: that profile
deft [4d\]: B shape already looks defective
BigMac [4k\]: i guess black want to capture r9...
BigMac [4k\]: but white would capture o9 and become thick..
BigMac [4k\]: which is bad for black's moyo
wingnoll [12k\]: rotate around q6
deft [4d\]: W has many options, one is to make good shape by sacrificing P9 ( O8 P8 N10 )
]
;W[nl]
;B[ol]C[lamwu [?\]: why not o11?
BigMac [4k\]: n10 doesnt really work...d16 has ladder
Cassis0 [5d\]: antti is strong but illya skills at fighting way better 
BigMac [4k\]: oh n10 does work...i meant o10
blackstork [?\]: b is almost bust imo
]
;W[oh]C[adhitthana [2d\]: yes b shouldnt fight
deft [4d\]: I think B has no other choice now but to fight
deft [4d\]: with N9
miao [6d\]: yes seft
miao [6d\]: *deft
adhitthana [2d\]: now it is too late, true
BigMac [4k\]: why dont white n10..
ThaElf [-\]: Too small to just capture.
adhitthana [2d\]: w is a awsome fighter 
deft [4d\]: ... anyway, Ilya can give Antti 2 or more stones handicap so it's not a surprise how this is going
miao [6d\]: no deft
miao [6d\]: ........
adhitthana [2d\]: 2? never
miao [6d\]: no way
BigMac [4k\]: 2 handis are alot harder than you think..
miao [6d\]: ilya can be happy when he manages to win
adhitthana [2d\]: :)
miao [6d\]: ..
adhitthana [2d\]: let bigmac tell you this, deft
SuperBuddy [1d\]: the point is antti has gotten stronger then , miao?
deft [4d\]: it's a long time since I played Antti
deft [4d\]: but Ilya is super strong and getting stronger all the time
miao [6d\]: stronger since when?
SuperBuddy [1d\]: since deft's last viewpoint ;)
Gon00bs [7k?\]: lol
Fenix [?\]: ilya's reading is flawless
o3epo [1k\]: Илья. мы за тебя болеем, вперед!
]
;B[mk]C[StefanRadu [1k\]: so. tien chooses the fight, the only option there is.
]
;W[lk]
;B[ni]C[Koukkaaja [3d\]: This match will end in a big bang
miao [6d\]: i dont think so
]
;W[ph]C[deft [4d\]: the problem is that he's already in trouble and Ilya is able to play this kind of fight like a pro
]
;B[lj]C[BigMac [4k\]: n11 for white works?
Koukkaaja [3d\]: Antti eats pros, so w should not play like a pro
]
;W[ll]
;B[qg]
;W[og]C[miao [6d\]: i like l10
]
;B[kj]C[miao [6d\]: :D
atreyu13 [12k?\]: :D
]
;W[jl]C[deft [4d\]: at least L10 has some value no matter how the fight turns out
atreyu13 [12k?\]: that flew right ove rmy head xD
StefanRadu [1k\]: oh my.. they read so fast.
StefanRadu [1k\]: the youth.. they play blitz..  and the elders.. on board 1.. they play.. slow. like old folks:)
Eilinen [-\]: How much they have time?
]
;B[rk]C[Gon00bs [7k?\]: one fitty, I think
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: w has 2h 18 minutes. b has 2h 9 minutes
Wayoutwest: Do they have lunchbreak?
Pepijn [2d\]: eurogotv is being photographed
Murugandi [4d\]: stud that he is
Pepijn [2d\]: it is disturbing
Pepijn [2d\]: how does he do that all the time?
Murugandi [4d\]: its born talent
Pepijn [2d\]: ah ok
Pepijn [2d\]: thanks
Murugandi [4d\]: np yw!
Murugandi [4d\]: :)
Pepijn [2d\]: are you a strong player?
]
;W[qi]C[Murugandi [4d\]: yes, very strong
Pepijn [2d\]: ah ok
Pepijn [2d\]: thanks
Murugandi [4d\]: so watch your commentary
Murugandi [4d\]: I can see right through
Pepijn [2d\]: !!
Murugandi [4d\]: ??
Pepijn [2d\]: R11 nice shape (?)
Murugandi [4d\]: who knows
Princessb [2k\]: is it just me, or does this look really awkward for w?
esidebob [-\]: well, w shape was god-awful-terrible
esidebob [-\]: now it has been upgraded to awkward
MaxMakinen [2k\]: and 15 minutes ago people were saying "black as already lost" ;)
MaxMakinen [2k\]: *has
Eilinen [-\]: : p
Princessb [2k\]: looks like w made a horrible mess
Koukkaaja [3d\]: and no mama to clean that up
esidebob [-\]: L10 and S9 were really key points both
stf7 [1k\]: lol
esidebob [-\]: kind of like O5 :)
Murugandi [4d\]: b's shape is not very aesthetically pleasing either
Koukkaaja [3d\]: as u can see from the stream, these blokes are esthetic behind the curtains
Pepijn [2d\]: go back to your seat!
Pepijn [2d\]: goood
Murugandi [4d\]: in china they call this kind of position When Zhen which means the wind that goes through the grass
Pepijn [2d\]: you mean this is joseki??
Murugandi [4d\]: yes
Pepijn [2d\]: oh...
Pepijn [2d\]: no wonder they play so fast
adhitthana [2d\]: which?
]
;B[mg]C[SuperBuddy [1d\]: would not have guessed that move
blackstork [?\]: I think p13 was too slow for w
Princessb [2k\]: Ilya does not look very pleased...
]
;W[oe]C[mur [1k\]: could somebody please give a link to the online video translation?
deft [4d\]: he never does, princess
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: We just had visiting professionals observing both games for while
Pepijn [2d\]: http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV2
]
;B[rj]C[Koukkaaja [3d\]: all your base are belong to us
mur [1k\]: thx
Princessb [2k\]: I at least admire b's style and flair to have a fan.
SuperBuddy [1d\]: i like b's style... dont know why
Princessb [2k\]: same here, I admire w for his skills though
esidebob [-\]: i like the b moves at L10 and N13 a lot
esidebob [-\]: boldly taking the initiative
atman [?\]: q16?
StefanRadu [1k\]: p17 huge...
]
;W[pd]C[Gon00bs [7k?\]: he's making a forcing move
Gon00bs [7k?\]: rude
Xodd [15k\]: who's playing?
donutt [6k\]: ...
sinshou [-\]: lol
donutt [6k\]: i think the eurogotv guys are actually playing the games
Xodd [15k\]: <_<  >_>  i was totally trolling you guys
]
;B[qc]C[donutt [6k\]: they're pretty good
Murugandi [4d\]: burp
Princessb [2k\]: if b wins, then L10 was the winning move
Murugandi [4d\]: did these players ever meet before?
Princessb [2k\]: they just left
Murugandi [4d\]: oh
Murugandi [4d\]: ok sorry
adhitthana [2d\]: I think b's position quite ok, but he needs sente
Pepijn [2d\]: dont touch the board breakfast
SuperBuddy [1d\]: where would he play it adhitt?
]
;W[qe]C[Koukkaaja [3d\]: w had joint and b wanted to join
MaxMakinen [2k\]: according to the european go database, they've played against each other 4 times. the score is 3-1 for ilya
]
;B[re]
;W[rf]
;B[qf]
;W[pe]
;B[rg]C[Murugandi [4d\]: oh tx maxmakinen
Murugandi [4d\]: :)
onegoal [3k\]: antti is a cool name
Murugandi [4d\]: I agree with onegoal
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Antti did just check his opponents time
MaxMakinen [2k\]: hopefully he pressed the correct button :D
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: B 1h 58mins, W 2h 5mins
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: He did, even thou it
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: is ING
ShusakuSai [8k\]: Can I have the link of the results of the tournament ?
Pepijn [2d\]: it is not over yet
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: This is 1st round
Xrillo [3d?\]: is there a list of pairings available?
ShusakuSai [8k\]: ok, I thought I missed one
Murugandi [4d\]: my eyes hurt
Murugandi [4d\]: is that normal?
Bruno [1d\]: why?
Darg [3d\]: are there other games played in the same room or just these two
MaxMakinen [2k\]: board 1 at least is played in the same room
onegoal [3k\]: two games to follow not enough? ^^
Murugandi [4d\]: plz focus on the game
Darg [3d\]: yeah i know board 1 and 2 are in same room, was asking if theres others
]
;W[le]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: We had Hayashi Kozo 6dan pro following the games
Murugandi [4d\]: nice move
Bruno [1d\]: maybe the onlyone
Murugandi [4d\]: maybe
Pepijn [2d\]: I think there were more nice moves
Murugandi [4d\]: you never know , pepijn
Murugandi [4d\]: thats the beauty of go
]
;B[me]C[Murugandi [4d\]: "maybe" but "maybe not"
Princessb [2k\]: b is steadfast
Pepijn [2d\]: hm
Murugandi [4d\]: I root for b
Murugandi [4d\]: go antti
Murugandi [4d\]: you have a name that seems to protest against everything
Murugandi [4d\]: so you are cool!
]
;W[md]C[Bruno [1d\]: hah
Bruno [1d\]: anarkist antti 
Eilinen [-\]: : p
Princessb [2k\]: o14
Murugandi [4d\]: anttifanti
Bruno [1d\]: too much preassure...maybe b should quit pushing
Princessb [2k\]: you can not quit, just like that...
StefanRadu [1k\]: c3
Princessb [2k\]: never c3
Bruno [1d\]: I didn't invent tenuki
Princessb [2k\]: tenuki will not happen now
]
;B[mf]C[Princessb [2k\]: threatens p14
miao [6d\]: hm
Cassis0 [5d\]: b nice position 
Murugandi [4d\]: q17 is sente right?
Murugandi [4d\]: or well
miao [6d\]: cassis it is not sure
Murugandi [4d\]: not really
miao [6d\]: i think w much beter potential
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: I wonder if players are feeling chilly,  atleast I am. Too many doors and windows open in venue.
Murugandi [4d\]: ANTTI SHOW EM WHAT YOU GOT
Bruno [1d\]: 2 euro ?
MaxMakinen [2k\]: eurogotv, the finns are used to cold weather.. so we make everyone else suffer too :D
Murugandi [4d\]: it is the wind throug the grass
Murugandi [4d\]: chinese proverb
Pepijn [2d\]: joseki?
Pepijn [2d\]: oh
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Well, I'm not cold blooded
Murugandi [4d\]: yes
]
;W[mh]C[Murugandi [4d\]: still joseki
Murugandi [4d\]: oh
Princessb [2k\]: oo ah
Murugandi [4d\]: this is new variation
Pepijn [2d\]: !!
Murugandi [4d\]: :D
wingnoll [12k\]: must learn
gocko: ilya seems nervouz
Murugandi [4d\]: ilya has a habit of staring his opponent down
Murugandi [4d\]: which sucks imho
Pepijn [2d\]: it looks impressive
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Ilya also swings back and forward
gocko: i agree murugandi
onegoal [3k\]: maybe he is just freezing
mur [1k\]: yep, that is unpleasant
Bruno [1d\]: send the link for gotv please
Pepijn [2d\]: http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV2
Bruno [1d\]: thanks
Pepijn [2d\]: it was nothing
Pepijn [2d\]: don't mention it
Murugandi [4d\]: pepijn you are contradicting yourself
Wisp [20k\]: is 012 good?
StefanRadu [1k\]: m12 only option?
Pepijn [2d\]: contradicting?
Shaomi [3d\]: i dont understand n12 at all
Murugandi [4d\]: yes, joseki
SuperBuddy [1d\]: position seems very hard
Murugandi [4d\]: m12 is really interesting
Murugandi [4d\]: n12
Princessb [2k\]: are you joking, or is this really a joseki? If this is joseki, why have they played so slowly?
Murugandi [4d\]: pardon me
Murugandi [4d\]: sorry I was joking
Murugandi [4d\]: this is not joseki
Princessb [2k\]: :)
Murugandi [4d\]: :)
Princessb [2k\]: thought so
Pepijn [2d\]: !!
Pepijn [2d\]: you were lying to us??
Cassis0 [5d\]: n12 working with n14 liberties with p14 but his main aim is b plays someting fuzzy and w trick him 
Pepijn [2d\]: how rude
Murugandi [4d\]: sorry :(
Pepijn [2d\]: it's ok
Princessb [2k\]: nvm, humour is good
Murugandi [4d\]: :)
Shaomi [3d\]: if i were black i would so much want to play m16
Murugandi [4d\]: Antti sits there so calmly, in the wind that goes through the grass
Murugandi [4d\]: it is almost as if he was a tree
Murugandi [4d\]: a wise old tree moving to place go stones
Murugandi [4d\]: a bit weird, but cool
a66d76df: Antti has wind problems or Ilya?
Murugandi [4d\]: ilya
a66d76df: oh
Murugandi [4d\]: burzo and dinerstein are smacking with the go stones
rvf [-\]: so,how will B answer?
Princessb [2k\]: o12
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: B 1h 45mins, W 1h 58mins
Murugandi [4d\]: I would have never thought of n12
]
;B[nh]C[Murugandi [4d\]: I also dont fully comprehend it
Princessb [2k\]: ;)
Wisp [20k\]: o12 is good :)
Pepijn [2d\]: thanks Wisp
Murugandi [4d\]: I agree with wisp
guta [3d\]: how many players are in top McMahon bar
Wisp [20k\]: yata!!
Wisp [20k\]: i called this like 5 min ago :)
guta [3d\]: and,do you know some other parings
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Corner doesn't seem pleased at all on the other board
rvf [-\]: Cornel?
Fenix [?\]: m16?
Murugandi [4d\]: Corner?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: yes, Cornel
Murugandi [4d\]: ah ok
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: EuroGoTV can't spell
Murugandi [4d\]: Dinerstein is standing up from his chair too often
Shaomi [3d\]: this doesnt seem good, did n12 give white gote ?
Princessb [2k\]: it gave him wind
]
;W[ng]C[esidebob [-\]: N12 did seem to increase the amount of bad aji in black's position
Murugandi [4d\]: my great grandfather also played go. He learned it from the Japanese during the war
Murugandi [4d\]: he used to tell me
Princessb [2k\]: m16
Murugandi [4d\]: "boy, when a stone comes down, dont be afraid. it will find it's way"
Murugandi [4d\]: I never understood him
]
;B[lh]C[Murugandi [4d\]: especially the "it's" part was strange to me
Fenix [?\]: from the vid i assume cornel went to bed at 5 am or something? =p
Murugandi [4d\]: since it isn't grammatically correct
rvf [-\]: was he in a jap prison camp?
miago [1d\]: all w is doing here is aiming at s16 it seems
Murugandi [4d\]: yes
maciek [2d\]: so when u started to play go muru?:)
atman [?\]: so black m12, white m16. did white gain anything by playing those moves before m16?
Murugandi [4d\]: well, when I was really small my great grandfather showed me
Murugandi [4d\]: but I only started playing in 2004
lalicoasa [4k\]: .
lalicoasa [4k\]: .
a66d76df: big difference between b M16  and w M16
gocko: hard times for white
Murugandi [4d\]: ANTTI!!!!
Pepijn [2d\]: white has komi
Murugandi [4d\]: B antti komi
Pepijn [2d\]: hm black looks great
dfer: if white M16 black capture O13
dfer: a kind of miai
Murugandi [4d\]: yea I like his hair
Pepijn [2d\]: you like long hairs?
Murugandi [4d\]: sometimes
a66d76df: long hair ,short life
]
;W[oc]C[SuperBuddy [1d\]: other board caught hugely in moves
Pepijn [2d\]: wow
Murugandi [4d\]: weird
SuperBuddy [1d\]: caught up*
Pepijn [2d\]: deep reading here
Murugandi [4d\]: yea very deep
esidebob [-\]: not really weird at all
Murugandi [4d\]: well
Murugandi [4d\]: the move itself lokos awkward
Murugandi [4d\]: but of course it has a deep meanin
Pepijn [2d\]: you mean disregarding the context?
Murugandi [4d\]: yes
Pepijn [2d\]: I agree
Murugandi [4d\]: regarding joseki matters
maligo [-\]: m16 s16 t14 s17 c13 
esidebob [-\]: this move has "good feeling"
]
;B[qb]
;W[ld]C[a66d76df: move p17 eye making and s16 friendly
Murugandi [4d\]: this move is good n stuff
]
;B[kc]
;W[ke]C[Shaomi [3d\]: i think black should have tried to seal white in
androidman: p17 poerfull, also prevent cutting q12 group
]
;B[je]
;W[jf]C[SuperBuddy [1d\]: b went to korea for a bit?
noned [2d\]: china
Thoravatar [2d\]: I think R18 was not forced
SuperBuddy [1d\]: oh
miago [1d\]: what happens if b cuts at o16 later?
Murugandi [4d\]: what happened in china
SuperBuddy [1d\]: he beat chang hao
Pepijn [2d\]: he went to jail
Eilinen [-\]: : p
Murugandi [4d\]: Im confused
Murugandi [4d\]: you say 2 different things
Cassis0 [5d\]: he could have done both 
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Black studied in china for while and got promoted from 5dan to 6 shortly after
MaxMakinen [2k\]: the finnish go assosciation had to promote him after they recieved a letter signed by 4 professionals stating that they think he should be promoted to 6dan :) then again, his gor rating isn't far behind 6d either
]
;B[ie]
;W[kg]C[unduasdf: they didn't *have to*, they took a vote on it
Shaomi [3d\]: m18
Murugandi [4d\]: antti the man
Murugandi [4d\]: go for it G
Murugandi [4d\]: we rootin
Murugandi [4d\]: we be prayin n stuff
WorldCop [2k\]: where have they gone?
Pepijn [2d\]: to a better place
]
;B[ij]C[a66d76df: cantine?
]
;W[hg]C[Janisan [2k\]: antti and ilya are playing in the pyynikki
esidebob [-\]: sounds epic indeed
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: top 100 boards are played in this building
gormito [-\]: what is this match?
Janisan [2k\]: this is 1st round of egc2010 main tournament
Murugandi [4d\]: this match determines who shall have to die on the guillutine 
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Round 1, 2nd board of EGC 2010 Main tournament
]
;B[ge]C[Janisan [2k\]: i was faster ;)
a66d76df: b cannot get rid of the gentle pressure on his k10 group 
Murugandi [4d\]: I was cooler
Janisan [2k\]: :D
]
;W[ic]C[gormito [-\]: XD
gormito [-\]: thanks
octopus [1d\]: the looser has to repair the ing clock
Murugandi [4d\]: the loser has to eat Paul, the octopus
dfer: L19 posible way to defend
dfer: l18
]
;B[gc]C[Murugandi [4d\]: dinerstein should resign
Murugandi [4d\]: even when he is russian
onegoal [3k\]: in soviet russia game resigns you ^^
Murugandi [4d\]: if antti keeps this up
Murugandi [4d\]: he's going to be the main MAN
]
;W[kb]C[gormito [-\]: k 18 or m 18?
Cassis0 [5d\]: or m17
deft [4d\]: B 15 point on the right, 2 in the middle and 10-15 more in upper left - I don't think this is a difficult game for W
Cassis0 [5d\]: m16 group still undecided
]
;B[jb]
;W[lb]
;B[jc]C[deft [4d\]: W repairs his O15 defect in sente and then gets to move first in the center -- how can it die?
deft [4d\]: J10 is more in trouble than the W group at this point
Cassis0 [5d\]: w has still no eye 
MaxMakinen [2k\]: pairings are up: http://www.egc2010.fi/results/egc-main-pairing.txt
nogo66:  why not   o15 p14 o16 o17 m17 n17 before?
Fenix [?\]: i prefer b here
]
;W[gj]C[Fenix [?\]: j12?
Fenix [?\]: and then b g11
ahimsa [7k?\]: Ilya Samara always for you. thoughtlessness and enjoy the game!
]
;B[hl]C[Pepijn [2d\]: nice fighting game
Pepijn [2d\]: European style
]
;W[ik]
;B[hk]
;W[hj]C[deft [4d\]: yes ^^
]
;B[ii]
;W[gh]
;B[jn]
;W[ln]C[Poney [2d\]: who's antti on kgs ? 
Eilinen [-\]: Tien
Poney [2d\]: Merci
]
;B[lo]C[Poney [2d\]: thanks**
blackstork [?\]: is b not overplaying?
nogo66: b too optimistic
deft [4d\]: both are overplaying, so it's OK ;)
Pepijn [2d\]: European style
Pepijn [2d\]: like I said
Pepijn [2d\]: nice, interesting
nogo66: b will get j9 finally
Pepijn [2d\]: not too many honte moves
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: B 1h 17mins, W 1h 29mins
]
;W[mo]C[Cassis0 [5d\]: good for white 
Cassis0 [5d\]: he can sacrifice j9 stone easily 
noned [2d\]: ilja almost panicking :)
Darg [3d\]: its a trick
Pulcik [-\]: MaxMakinen: thanks for pairing
Pepijn [2d\]: thanks for pairing???
]
;B[nn]C[kdb: lot of overplays in this game
Koukkaaja [3d\]: don't judge hontes as overplays
kdb: ? not honte play
Eilinen [-\]: How is Juri Kuronen doing?
kill [-\]: lol there is certainly no confusion between honte and overplay
typohh [6k\]: hontes are moves that remove bad aji, and appear slow, but are often sente?
kill [-\]: except for the "are often sente" part
Goreon [2d\]: m8 died?
Stefany93 [15k\]: How can I see the results later?
kill [-\]: it is like acknowledging that there is a problem with your shape that needs to be fixed before doing anything else
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Stefany, results are most likely to uploaded to egc2010 website later today
Pepijn [2d\]: you mean after the game?
deft [4d\]: I think W is OK here because he can give up J9 now that B invested some moves in the lower side
XafXlopp: i can't see any connection between "honte" and "sente"
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: I'm sure EuroGoTV will give the link alteast during tomorrows game
deft [4d\]: W can just move out and make a big territory on the bottom
deft [4d\]: but maybe a connection between "honte" and "gote no sente"
esidebob [-\]: honte can be sente, but speedy moves are usually far from honte
kdb: honte is all about having control of the game later
kdb: if you tenuki too much you can lose control of the game at the critical moment
Murugandi [4d\]: ilya transformed into a statue
noned [2d\]: heh this layout is wrong way btw :)
typohh [6k\]: m4 l5 j7 bad?
erna [7k\]: l5 not enough .....?
]
;W[ko]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Noned: It's turned 90 degrees to make my job easyer
typohh [6k\]: doesnt n5 die now?
cherisse [1k\]: are they kgs players too?
typohh [6k\]: anssi is tien
typohh [6k\]: er, antti
noned [2d\]: eurogotv, yes. I completely understand :)
Murugandi [4d\]: ilya is trying to hypnotize antti again
Murugandi [4d\]: with his movements
Murugandi [4d\]: IT WONT WORK
Murugandi [4d\]: go antti!
sameasyou [2d\]: L6
Murugandi [4d\]: (no offense ilya, you are cool too)
samowar [2d\]: w will have to add a move at r5, i wonder when he's going to do it, hm
]
;B[lm]
;W[kn]
;B[km]
;W[jm]C[samowar [2d\]: oh, no need now:)
deft [4d\]: the whole idea here is that W makes B invest too much in bottom and then plays J7 at the right time, prepared to give up J9
]
;B[mm]C[plusguy [3d\]: black can live with N9 group in gote if he wants to , what he is trying to do is make it sente :p
Bruno [1d\]: Tsurukame, do you play in this tourney?
Murugandi [4d\]: ik moet poepen
]
;W[in]C[Murugandi [4d\]: en dat ga ik dus ook even doen
deft [4d\]: if B has to take gote to live with the N9 group he can resign
]
;B[jo]C[a66d76df: go them
a66d76df: before it's too late
]
;W[kp]C[a66d76df: *then
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Ilya seemed a bit sad about this sequence
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: or atleast 
kdb: looks like a big success for W
samowar [2d\]: he wanted to kill:P
deft [4d\]: it's not over yet, B can continue fighting with K4
kdb: W gets points, B plays a bunch of dame and K6 is refuted
deft [4d\]: W might have to give up N5 stones also
kdb: B net after K4 doesn't work
kdb: seems K6 and J9 are miai
falientje [10k?\]: the dutch are vulgar
Pepijn [2d\]: ??
Bruno [1d\]: where arte you from?
itepilah [1d\]: do u know Antti's blog address?
kill [-\]: is j5 possible?
Pepijn [2d\]: falientje> why?
falientje [10k?\]: see murugandi
Loons [4k\]: Considering the top left I think black is still in this game
Pepijn [2d\]: ah yes so true, so true
Loons [4k\]: H8 are alive right now, aren't they ?
Pepijn [2d\]: I agree with you
falientje [10k?\]: :)
Loons [4k\]: Hmm, maybe not
oddalot [5k\]: I guess thomas debarre isn't at egc this year
Loons [4k\]: But I have enjoyed black's play
wolokom [5k\]: 30 zu 40 für schwarz
Murugandi [4d\]: valientje, will you marry me?
kill [-\]: D4 is a ladder breaker
Pepijn [2d\]: maybe I can arrange it
Murugandi [4d\]: I wish everybody would behave so well as valientje
Koukkaaja [3d\]: i think m7 was a mistake
Murugandi [4d\]: the world would be so much of a better place
ww [?\]: does some1 know if ilya is studying (smth else than go), working, studying go
Pepijn [2d\]: he is a dancer
ww [?\]: what kind of dance
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: B 1h 5mins, White 1h 11mins
Pepijn [2d\]: freedance
]
;B[io]C[oddalot [5k\]: what time did this round start?
oddalot [5k\]: how many hours ago?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: both had 2h 30mins time
Wisp [20k\]: like 2 hrs ago
falientje [10k?\]: murugandi: no:p
wolokom [5k\]: h 5
oddalot [5k\]: so 3pm central time?
oddalot [5k\]: err 3am
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: a bit after 10am EEST
oddalot [5k\]: how is artem doing eurogo?
zife [6k\]: = 3 hours ago
]
;W[hm]C[kill [-\]: E4?
]
;B[ho]C[nogo66: is there 1 round per day?
Murugandi [4d\]: awwww
Murugandi [4d\]: :'(
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: yes, only one round per day
]
;W[gl]
;B[jk]C[Warfreak2 [6d\]: sup guize
Murugandi [4d\]: ewaaaa warretje
Murugandi [4d\]: alles goet?
nogo66: L8
]
;W[kl]
;B[il]
;W[gk]C[kill [-\]: b is already alive in sente right?
kill [-\]: eg K12 is sente for b?
Murugandi [4d\]: this is good for w
kdb: oh, sooooo good for w
deft [4d\]: B made another heavy group at H5
kill [-\]: why good for w?
atman [?\]: can h5 group survive?
Loons [4k\]: G7 ? just as an aji stone ?
Orandajinn [2d?\]: bad joseki choice by B
kill [-\]: b has several forcing moves with H5
Pepijn [2d\]: still joseki?
kill [-\]: it is not really heavy
kdb: B H6 overplay refuted
Goreon [2d\]: Is m10 indnager too?
adhitthana [2d\]: whole board joseki
oddalot [5k\]: don't worry, be hippie
kdb: K6*
ww [?\]: k11 and m13 for w?
]
;B[fq]C[ww [?\]: oh it alive :)
Koukkaaja [3d\]: this joseki still has some branches
Murugandi [4d\]: f3 standard
]
;W[gn]C[nogo66: left side will be huge for w laterz
atman [?\]: oh, I would have thougt that center group needs one more move
kill [-\]: no it doesnt
esidebob [-\]: if it needs, then might as well resign
deft [4d\]: L12 does not kill the center group
ww [?\]: center group hard tsumego for a kyu
kill [-\]: b has like 3 eyes in the ceenter
kill [-\]: alive for many reasons
suko [4d\]: h3 ?
]
;B[dr]C[kill [-\]: eg P10 and P11 are sente
Koukkaaja [3d\]: but the question is is 3 inuf
nogo66: b has to make life life at bottomand playleft side before it is too huge
Loons [4k\]: F3 H5 ???
nogo66: f5?
kill [-\]: b just sacrifice K5?
]
;W[kh]C[esidebob [-\]: k5 not important stones at all anymore
nogo66: 4 stones attached to living groups
BluBs [-\]: dead
deft [4d\]: I think P10
nogo66: L11
kill [-\]: L11 first?
kill [-\]: ok maybe p10
FraTeoX [1k\]: or p11
deft [4d\]: ... but I was wrong, B is dead
kill [-\]: to prevent O10 from w
]
;B[oj]C[FraTeoX [1k\]: yes but p 11 work too no ?
kill [-\]: b shuld have palyed K12?
kill [-\]: now w has a much better shape
]
;W[pk]C[notMe [1d\]: n11
suko [4d\]: l11
kill [-\]: L11
MoogleOo [2d\]: dead
suko [4d\]: no
oddalot [5k\]: p11
PapaYan [-\]: looks like l11 doesnt go
deft [4d\]: if L11 then N11, if N11 then L11
suko [4d\]: yes so l11 first better
deft [4d\]: ... if P11 then N10 and if N10 then P11
MikGo [1d\]: that's the cat thing right?
MikGo [1d\]: meow
ProoMas [13k\]: bP11 wQ11 bN11
harpo [?\]: l11 n11 n10
deft [4d\]: B is just dead in all variations
ProoMas [13k\]: isn't this right?
mibagent [2k\]: B will live
FraTeoX [1k\]: no p11 doesn't work bevcause of n 12
A1R [4k\]: how much time is left?
Pepijn [2d\]: but... the kyu's said it had 3 eyes!!
notMe [1d\]: l11 n11 n10 k11
nogo66: how can black play moves like d2 if he has not read simple moves like l12 before??
harpo [?\]: yes
nogo66: that is kyu or blitz style but in a tournament with enough time b should not need to think for his response
harpo [?\]: j13 first?
]
;B[ig]C[Boogeyman [2k\]: EuroGoTV, please, check the time.
Pepijn [2d\]: nothing wrong with the time
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: B 54mins, W 1h 4mins
A1R [4k\]: thx
Orandajinn [2d?\]: pepijn please focus on the game!
kuruhuru9 [7k\]: remaining time?
Pepijn [2d\]: I am trying, I am trying!
nogo66: j13 desperate?
Pepijn [2d\]: but they keep distracting me
Pepijn [2d\]: please be quiet now
suko [4d\]: j13 seems good
Orandajinn [2d?\]: ok, thanks, very good
kill [-\]: P11 what does w play?
Orandajinn [2d?\]: yes
Pepijn [2d\]: they keep interrupting! I can't focus like this
kill [-\]: P11 Q11 N10 alive
notMe [1d\]: ask nogo66. he said its simple
Wisp [20k\]: y would w q`11?
PapaYan [-\]: p11  n11 
nogo66: where and when? 
deft [4d\]: nice little trap there
deft [4d\]: W must K12
notMe [1d\]: nogo66: how can black play moves like d2 if he has not read simple moves like l12 before??
nogo66: notme said b will resign at move 87
suko [4d\]: no k12 alive
suko [4d\]: k12,J12,J14,L11
nogo66: ah - ok my fault - by simple i meant obviuos
deft [4d\]: the trick is that W K11 doesn't destroy eye anymore
deft [4d\]: you just have to read out the original killing sequence and see that W plays K11 then if J13 W will answer at K12
ProoMas [13k\]: what's wrong with P11 for b again?
deft [4d\]: P11 then N10, ProoMas
kill [-\]: no
kill [-\]: P11 N10 is alive
kill [-\]: but P11 just answer at Q11
kill [-\]: and b will get a problem with L11
kill [-\]: but now J13 shines
bobstep [8k\]: p11 gote
kill [-\]: hmm well actually P11 N10 can come to the same sequence
kill [-\]: but N10 is not the key move the key move is l11
ProoMas [13k\]: so
deft [4d\]: you're right, kill
ProoMas [13k\]: P11, N10, N11, O10, L11 b lives?
mibagent [2k\]: B, P11 W L11
mibagent [2k\]: play that out for a while
mibagent [2k\]: W L11 was key
kill [-\]: have to answer first though
adhitthana [2d\]: P11 N11 kills
]
;W[ih]C[adhitthana [2d\]: N10 sorry
kill [-\]: except for J13
]
;B[jh]
;W[hh]C[ProoMas [13k\]: if bP11, wL11, bQ11, wR10 and black breaks through
Poney [2d\]: l11 lives
deft [4d\]: l11 n10 p11 m11 k11 dead
deft [4d\]: there was a move left out
Loons [4k\]: Black stuff like L9, P11 forcing
suko [4d\]: k11
Wisp [20k\]: what about k11?
ProoMas [13k\]: white can't ignore P11, can he?
deft [4d\]: L11 N11 N10 P11 M11 K11
kill [-\]: N10 then capture 
kill [-\]: and alive
ww [?\]: still looks like dead 
nogo66: hm i cannot see an improvement after the k12 and j13 exchange...
adhitthana [2d\]: b dead
Poney [2d\]: N10 O10 deft
notMe [1d\]: p11 now
kill [-\]: after L11 w has to play N11
deft [4d\]: I said I left out a move
Wisp [20k\]: doesnt k12 creat an eye?
Orandajinn [2d?\]:                              
Poney [2d\]: just alive
adhitthana [2d\]: how to live?
deft [4d\]: because I used the ctrl+click to enter coordinate and sometimes it just skips one, I don't know why
suko [4d\]: yeah l11 alive
adhitthana [2d\]: L11 N10
deft [4d\]: L11 N11, not alive
PapaYan [-\]: l11 k11 ?
kill [-\]: yes N11
kill [-\]: not n1
kill [-\]: 0
kill [-\]: not n10
]
;B[if]C[ProoMas [13k\]: wtf
deft [4d\]: another trick
deft [4d\]: but Ilya won't be fooled by this
]
;W[jg]C[ProoMas [13k\]: instant answer =D
]
;B[ji]C[Wisp [20k\]: k12 :)
kill [-\]: I predict a semeai
deft [4d\]: just M11?
nogo66: if semeai i bet 20 bucks on w
notMe [1d\]: so ko?
deft [4d\]: ko??
deft [4d\]: no
jia [3k\]: dead
ProoMas [13k\]: alive
A1R [4k\]: yep dead
notMe [1d\]: we have now: ko, alive, dead. who says seki?
fuzhou [4d\]: p11
suko [4d\]: m11,n11,l11,p11,q11,l9
]
;W[mj]C[nogo66: ok to complete the list i say seki ^^
yoyoma [1d\]: triple ko -- replay game
erkkierkki [6k\]: sente or gote seki?
ProoMas [13k\]: gote dead
nogo66: oh can i change to triple ko?
ProoMas [13k\]: bL11, w?
BluBs [-\]: omfg 
ProoMas [13k\]: what about L11?
adhitthana [2d\]: dead
]
;B[nj]C[ProoMas [13k\]: how would white respond to L11 =D?
BluBs [-\]: c'est ce qui s'appelle tuer avec classe
adhitthana [2d\]: M11
]
;W[li]
;B[lg]
;W[ki]
;B[mi]C[adhitthana [2d\]: oh
]
;W[kf]C[nogo66: gg
ProoMas [13k\]: L9
kill [-\]: semeai
atman [?\]: *clap clap* good show
ProoMas [13k\]: L9
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Black resings
ProoMas [13k\]: ^_^
Vivio [2d\]: only 1 eye
ProoMas [13k\]: ?
Goreon [2d\]: !
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: W=R
ProoMas [13k\]: L9 - 2 eyes
ProoMas [13k\]: oh
ProoMas [13k\]: no
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: W+R
kill [-\]: P14?
jia [3k\]: oh yes
madlax [-\]: awesome killer x)
adhitthana [2d\]: As I said
Boogeyman [2k\]: thx for translate!
Pepijn [2d\]: but the kyus said it had 3 eyes :(
Pepijn [2d\]: and suddenly it died
polosh [2k?\]: it has 4
Loons [4k\]: It has 3 eyes
Loons [4k\]: Sort of
ProoMas [13k\]: P11 now?
nogo66: it has 4 eyes
atman [?\]: it had one eye too many
adhitthana [2d\]: 2 half eyes dont make one
nogo66: but 3 are false...
minikeums [11k\]: xD no live :p
kill [-\]: it is just that b has less liberties
kill [-\]: w also not alive but easily wins the semeai
ProoMas [13k\]: P11 now?
nogo66: less is an euphemism for nearly no liberties at all
kill [-\]: as b the best mvoe is probably P14 if you want to try something
Wisp [20k\]: can b kill m8?
ProoMas [13k\]: what about Q11?
eatsushi [5k?\]: the game ended
madlax [-\]: Thanks Eurogotv2
ProoMas [13k\]: =(
tapir [1k\]: N11 instead of O10 would it have helped?
Wisp [20k\]: it over?
madlax [-\]: yes:p
Wisp [20k\]: lame..
madlax [-\]: it's over x) 
nogo66: g7 at f3?
])