(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[NZ]SZ[19]KM[8.00]TM[3600]OT[25/600 Canadian]
GN[European Youth Go Championship 2013 under 20 Board 2 Round 5]PW[Lukas Podpera]PB[Ali Jabarin]WR[6d]BR[6d]DT[2013-03-10]PC[Budapest, Hungary]C[gooooo [-\]: ooh, nice parti
Jewels [-\]: very
Jewels [-\]: who is lukas
xDragon [?\]: hes lukan on kgs
Jewels [-\]: cool
mooooo [4k\]: alis is oohja or something forgot
xDragon [?\]: oohaah i think
Jewels [-\]: the OohAah
Jewels [-\]: ?
xDragon [?\]: or oohahh
mooooo [4k\]: oh yes thats it
Ukasuhs [4d\]: but he hasnt played on kgs in a long time
Jewels [-\]: both are very strong...
Jewels [-\]: i bet on ali jabarin
Jewels [-\]: and you
xDragon [?\]: lol. tengen game on the under 12 board
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Live TV broadcast of this game on on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
ONIONKING [4d\]: hmm not showing pavol's game? isn't he winning?
xDragon [?\]: this is board 2 now 1
xDragon [?\]: not
ONIONKING [4d\]: sure, but why :(
ONIONKING [4d\]: oh pavol on egtv4
Neospring [3k\]: when will go 3d come out?
Neospring [3k\]: 19x19x19
xDragon [?\]: well i can see why they chose to show board 2
xDragon [?\]: they put pavol vs a 5k
manofearth [?\]: ooaah lives?
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: under 16 (EuroGoTV2) has a nice game
TuLy [8k\]: where is playing Pavol Lisy? 
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: EuroGoTV4
Ukasuhs [4d\]: i wish i started playing when i was under 12
TuLy [8k\]: thx a lot
morbidus [1d\]: i started when i was 26, too late for all U-titles :)
morbidus [1d\]: or there is U-50?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: haha U-50. you might have some competition
Ukasuhs [4d\]: the european elderly championship with over 50, over 60, over 70
power [3k\]: where are the players?
xDragon [?\]: late as usual
power [3k\]: I thought they are invisible
power [3k\]: and play invisible stones
Rukis [4k\]: stream this time Euro? :D
Ukasuhs [4d\]: eurogotv3 is at move 100 already >.<
gooooo [-\]: uka, the stream doesn't show any players
gooooo [-\]: http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
Rukis [4k\]: hah ayeah
gooooo [-\]: so not sure if we are missing anything quite yet
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: hello everybody
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: sorry for this delay, we are currently waiting for Ali to arrive
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: i hope he will be here in a few minutes
Rukis [4k\]: have you contacted him?
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: i have seen him already today
ERonG3079 [18k\]: hey
]
;B[dc]
;W[cp]C[Rukis [4k\]: YAY!
]
;B[qp]
;W[pd]
;B[eq]
;W[do]
;B[ce]
;W[op]
;B[oq]C[Jewels [-\]: uff
Jewels [-\]: haha
Jewels [-\]: good one 
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: sorry for the mistake
Jewels [-\]: no problem
Jewels [-\]: is that an hotel
Jewels [-\]: ?
Jewels [-\]: a hotel
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: yes
]
;W[nq]C[Jewels [-\]: it's pretty good oh
]
;B[pq]
;W[mp]C[Jewels [-\]: j3
]
;B[jp]
;W[pn]
;B[rn]
;W[hq]
;B[hp]C[Jewels [-\]: Ali Jabarin secret reading
]
;W[gp]
;B[gq]C[EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Live TV broadcast of this game on on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
Jewels [-\]: os maybe he is just sleeping
Jewels [-\]: lol^^
murrmurr [?\]: i dont know what's going to happen on bottom here exactly but i favor black's fuseki sense
reprisal [-\]: this shape is nice and symmetric
]
;W[fq]
;B[gr]C[reprisal [-\]: now its all ruined
]
;W[go]C[Daddeldu [3k\]: it makes me scared even to look at .  as a kyu... :-)
Jewels [-\]: b going to get k3 and its fine
Jewels [-\]: ops nvm
Jewels [-\]: k17
Jewels [-\]: rofl
]
;B[fr]
;W[ip]
;B[iq]
;W[ho]
;B[hr]C[Jewels [-\]: hbahahaah
Jewels [-\]: he played without hit clock
Daddeldu [3k\]: is that good enough for black?
reprisal [-\]: it happens a lot
Jewels [-\]: it was funny
Jewels [-\]: ;)
reprisal [-\]: seems fine for b if the ko is manageable
Jewels [-\]: if he gets ko on sente +tenuki then cool
]
;W[jq]
;B[hp]
;W[io]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: w cant play ko now, just getting forcing moves
]
;B[kq]
;W[jr]
;B[kr]C[Jewels [-\]: that was  a mistake by w
reprisal [-\]: kind of expensive forcing moves
Jewels [-\]: but good for wall
reprisal [-\]: thats a lot of aji keshed
Jewels [-\]: b must be sure of his center cash
Ukasuhs [4d\]: sealing black in with good shape isnt bad
Jewels [-\]: i mean W*
murrmurr [?\]: what good shape
Daddeldu [3k\]: k5 and fine for w. sente and big wall
Daddeldu [3k\]: only 10 points or so for b
Jewels [-\]: k5 l4 k17 r14  :)
reprisal [-\]: seems plausible
]
;W[kn]C[gaspard0 [2d\]: if w only play k5 and then tenuki then the wall is not complete
reprisal [-\]: maybe k16 fits center plan better though
gaspard0 [2d\]: hence, w doesnt play it
Jewels [-\]: b was surprised
Daddeldu [3k\]: cool form of white.
Jewels [-\]: b can tenuki
]
;B[kp]C[Jewels [-\]: well
reprisal [-\]: this is kind of funny shape considering m5
Jewels [-\]: maybe not
gaspard0 [2d\]: now its better than with w k5
Jewels [-\]: Ali Jabarin usually do that?
reprisal [-\]: not convinced, but what do i know
niceguest: i like b a lot more
Yanwangye [-\]: is b sliping? oO
Jewels [-\]: i dunno
Jewels [-\]: maybe he is tired or it's his style
gaspard0 [2d\]: d12?
niceguest: k16 is pretty big though
]
;W[ci]C[gaspard0 [2d\]: damn wrong
reprisal [-\]: wow thats really surprising
gaspard0 [2d\]: basic 5 space extension
murrmurr [?\]: i might have gone for high here
Jewels [-\]: o17 
Daddeldu [3k\]: why? he is building ab a moyo.
]
;B[fi]C[Jewels [-\]: but moyo is easy to invade
murrmurr [?\]: that was quick
reprisal [-\]: low and on the cramped side
niceguest: now thats suprising
SIkachnak [6d?\]: f11 for real?
temporary [8k\]: like that?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: dont like f11
Ukasuhs [4d\]: at all
gaspard0 [2d\]: i'd have gone for high move too
Jewels [-\]: f11 was early IMO
reprisal [-\]: f11 so loose...why not play closer?
reprisal [-\]: i wouldnt be afraid there...
]
;W[jc]C[Daddeldu [3k\]: sabaki
Ukasuhs [4d\]: f11 just makes no points
Ukasuhs [4d\]: and doesnt threaten anything
murrmurr [?\]: it's a reduction move
reprisal [-\]: yeah no next move
Jewels [-\]: it's not bad move
Jewels [-\]: but different
reprisal [-\]: at least e11 has some sort of followups
mets [2d\]: seems like a liability
temporary [8k\]: looks spendy for B to make that move
]
;B[dj]C[gaspard0 [2d\]: w is happy if b spends a lot of sentes just to reduce moyo
Ukasuhs [4d\]: b spend 2 moves, w still get 3rd line easy. b still not connected or strong. w got the big point on top
niceguest: i think c9 better than c10 here
klk: what's better c 9 or c 10?
]
;W[di]C[Jewels [-\]: ii don't know, b has more cash
niceguest: d11 is very strong move i guess
Jewels [-\]: f9
klk: oh d11 0.0
reprisal [-\]: d11 hard to criticize
reprisal [-\]: good spirit
Daddeldu [3k\]: hard to understand:-)
]
;B[cj]C[niceguest: if c10 doesnt work for b here, its good
]
;W[ej]
;B[ei]C[murrmurr [?\]: cut and hane under
]
;W[bj]C[niceguest: i guess its a lot of fighting not
]
;B[bk]
;W[bi]C[miao [6d\]: ali showing power
]
;B[dl]C[gaspard0 [2d\]: yeah good fighting spirit
miao [6d\]: maybe too much 
klk: thx guest
Jewels [-\]: Is lukas using panda net tshit?
Jewels [-\]: ops t-shirt*
reprisal [-\]: both plenty of spirit
niceguest: now*
]
;W[ek]
;B[el]C[miao [6d\]: f11 makes sense
reprisal [-\]: but they are playing so fast
reprisal [-\]: they cant be reading this very deeply
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w strategy looks dangerous, for cross fuseki?
]
;W[gj]C[miao [6d\]: it limits w influence
]
;B[bm]C[Jewels [-\]: eurogo
temporary [8k\]: video link?
Jewels [-\]: is that board of kaya?
snichols [10k?\]: I don't understand any of this...
reprisal [-\]: so even more spirit to play this hard fight quickly in a tournament game
reprisal [-\]: that takes guts
]
;W[df]C[Jewels [-\]: b is tired
snichols [10k?\]: Can someone explain to me what's going on?
murrmurr [?\]: snichols, two people are playing go
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Live TV broadcast of this game on on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
niceguest: its just a high dan fight
Ukasuhs [4d\]: well d8, e9, e8, g10, b7 is all kind of forced
]
;B[cf]C[Jewels [-\]: euro, is it kaya board or?
]
;W[dg]C[niceguest: everyone fights at least a little on the go board
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Jewels: i dont think so :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w playing for moyo on crussfuseki.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and now running with a weak group
Jewels [-\]: tx
Ukasuhs [4d\]: well oot, b did get enclosed twice
murrmurr [?\]: it's not really weak weak
Ootakamoku [2d\]: no, but needs a step or two
Ootakamoku [2d\]: btw, is c10 locally alive?
murrmurr [?\]: black still has d8 to worry about
gaspard0 [2d\]: the big problem for w was that b had more space than w to extend from the stones. d5 was pretty far away but b c15 was almost ideally placed to prevent w extension there
Ukasuhs [4d\]: c10 is not alive yet, no
niceguest: there is some aji around e6 
]
;B[gi]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: i think if there is a big problem for w yet, it can only be d11
temporary [8k\]: B looks like he's praying that last move was good
Ukasuhs [4d\]: if it turns out to be a bad fight then the big wall is wasted
]
;W[gk]C[Liso66 [?\]: ali
Liso66 [?\]: is sleeping?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: now the big question I guess, to which side add a move?
niceguest: ali appears to be reading in his mind
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I guess b will feel compelled to add another move to f11
Liso66 [?\]: meditation :D
]
;B[en]
;W[eo]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: so, next guess, did this settle the group in sente?
Koukkaaja [3d\]: no
gaspard0 [2d\]: needs another move
]
;B[fn]
;W[dq]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: and even if b adds another moves, w a9 is still super problem
]
;B[hm]C[EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Live TV broadcast of this game on on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
Ukasuhs [4d\]: hard for b to play any attack on d13 with w a9 open
Dalgol [20k\]: why is the player controlling black so tired?
reprisal [-\]: b running along the wall now, cant be too bad
reprisal [-\]: well its probably at some horrible time like 0900
Dalgol [20k\]: ah
Jewels [-\]: he is for sure sleeping
reprisal [-\]: since tournaments start in the morning :(
Jewels [-\]: >.<
Nyine [15k\]: He went partying last night
reprisal [-\]: it really hampers your ability to go drinking the night before
temporary [8k\]: they play so fast. why?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but hey, w made atleast 5 points in bottom left corner!
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w is catching up in territory!
xDragon [?\]: you think thats bad? the tourneys here start at 2-3am
xDragon [?\]: so im lucky to catch 1 round
gaspard0 [2d\]: isnt that sort of horrible plan to drink before match?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: this fight isnt about finding points yet
Jewels [-\]: temporary, depending of the game, could be easy to read or not easy, they are finding only the obvious moves to play out... thats why a kind of fast
shakti [-\]: using the gobowl as a headrest is brilliant
]
;W[ik]C[bobstep [2d?\]: I get just a blank screen on the broadcast, anyone know solution?
byrain [2d\]: d3 is vastly better than just connecting 
temporary [8k\]: under 20 = no need sleep
Ukasuhs [4d\]: first black needs to make sure everything is alive, then white needs to do the same
Dalgol [20k\]: bob maybe its your flashplayer
Dalgol [20k\]: you may need to update it
byrain [2d\]: i may have missed d3 if i were playing blitz
byrain [2d\]: or something
Dalgol [20k\]: or try refreshing the page
]
;B[ep]C[byrain [2d\]: and i always play blitz
MusicQi [-\]: anyone else appreciate that their shirts match their stons?
]
;W[fo]C[Dalgol [20k\]: omg
Dalgol [20k\]: ^^
]
;B[dn]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: well, now b settled for sure
Jewels [-\]: but he is using pandanet tshirt
VKnight [2d\]: does anyone else have a problem with the chat here? it's a bit off screen for me/
Jewels [-\]: it's bad for kgs
Jewels [-\]: >:/
reprisal [-\]: yeah, VK
shakti [-\]: pandanet rules
reprisal [-\]: it keeps scrolling off to the right
Ukasuhs [4d\]: no problem for me
Jewels [-\]: i can't even see the chat 
reprisal [-\]: not sure why its doing it here
niceguest: i sometimes have that problem, is the window fully maximized?
temporary [8k\]: my picture is fine
XiaoDragon [5k\]: yeah i don't see any problems
Pingu007 [3d\]: ali had a bad night?
Jewels [-\]: i wonder if b is sleeping
Ootakamoku [2d\]: how funny would it be if b fell asleep
Jewels [-\]: lol
VKnight [2d\]: yes, niceguest. i have to minimize it now...
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: night was a bit long probably :)
]
;W[cn]
;B[cm]C[reprisal [-\]: or a bit short, more likely
murrmurr [?\]: g14 or d15, i suppose
shakti [-\]: lack of food also probably
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: depends on how we see
Ootakamoku [2d\]: want f14 or something
Jewels [-\]: he is getting angry
Koukkaaja [3d\]: where's this tournament?
]
;W[gf]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: budapest?
Jewels [-\]: he smashed the stone very harder
murrmurr [?\]: i figured as much, can later play d18
Pingu007 [3d\]: yep
]
;B[ii]
;W[db]C[TheThe [6k\]: video behind a lot, maybe 30 sec
reprisal [-\]: so much for later
niceguest: its a good time for the d18 probe
XiaoDragon [5k\]: nice call
Jewels [-\]: d18 spectacular
Ootakamoku [2d\]: not answering it directly would be cool
XiaoDragon [5k\]: will be difficult to answer a move like that indirectly
niceguest: unless b can somehow tenuki and still be OK :)
byrain [2d\]: c18
reprisal [-\]: tenuki seems unlikely
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b j14 :)
temporary [8k\]: lol... b wakes up long enough to look at board and make move then lays head back down. very funny but kinda sad, too
byrain [2d\]: i don't feel like there is another response here other than c18
niceguest: e17 for the fight, i think :)
Jewels [-\]: c13 mb
Ootakamoku [2d\]: byrain, but c18 hurts g11?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: c18 d16 is what w wants probably
reprisal [-\]: c17, e18 are also worth thinking about
gaspard0 [2d\]: what is he sleeping on? cant bother to log on to watch the stream
reprisal [-\]: always have to consider at least the four basic options
niceguest: you must mean c18 e17 for course
Jewels [-\]: he is sleeping over the goke, inside his stones
Ootakamoku [2d\]: gaspardo, he has his mattress right next to the table
Gibbon [?\]: The player on the right looks tired
ptilu [1k\]: what are the four basic options ?
reprisal [-\]: i mean e18 e17 c17 c18 ...always have to consider those four for any probe
byrain [2d\]: i feel e17 and letting w live will pose problem for b as it has to live
rats [1d?\]: sleep is his special move
byrain [2d\]: along with j11
Jewels [-\]: oppam drunken style
byrain [2d\]: c18 sucks usually but i feel like i need to live first
ootpsr [2k\]: i would go e18 here, cause of d14 group
Ootakamoku [2d\]: e18 c18 e17 c17 are the classical choices I guess, c17 being very submissive, e17 offering corner
XiaoDragon [5k\]: c17 would feel horrible to play
byrain [2d\]: actually c17 is possible too
Ootakamoku [2d\]: c17 is for when you are afraid your corner might die
byrain [2d\]: i guess 
TheThe [6k\]: r17 
reprisal [-\]: c17 blocks c18 d16 c16 e17 c17 type stuff
Jewels [-\]: e15 is obvious move
reprisal [-\]: but yes its a submissive move
gogonuts [5d\]: i expect c17 f17 
rats [1d?\]: c17 good if you really want sente and don't want to give forcing moves and don't care if he can take the corner later (ie. sente really really really important)
Ukasuhs [4d\]: ya, i also expect c17
Ootakamoku [2d\]: Ill go for the uber crazy j14 choice
murrmurr [?\]: c17 is too passive imho
niceguest: i already suggested tenuki but nobody thought it was a good idea :)
byrain [2d\]: ya i change my mind to c17
reprisal [-\]: i think you need to give a move, not tenuki :)
Ukasuhs [4d\]: the only other option seems e17, and b needs to use e15 peeps so that w dies if he goes in for c17
reprisal [-\]: because its pretty hard to find a legitimate tenuki
murrmurr [?\]: e16!
gogonuts [5d\]: e17 really smells like trouble for b later
Gibbon [?\]: I wonder if he should take 10 minutes of his time for a nap, then come back and play ^^
XiaoDragon [5k\]: seems hard to kill, even with peeps
Ootakamoku [2d\]: j14 is legitimate! you guys just need to read the fight deeper.
reprisal [-\]: j14 is pretty dubious shape
]
;B[cb]C[reprisal [-\]: h12 gleams after j14
niceguest: e17 
Daddeldu [3k\]: awoken at last
SIkachnak [6d?\]: speaking of submission...
XiaoDragon [5k\]: d16 clamp?
byrain [2d\]: e17
reprisal [-\]: well this is less submissive than c17
reprisal [-\]: so its compromise :)
byrain [2d\]: or clamp
]
;W[ec]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: clamp looks better than e17 here
]
;B[dd]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: and I was wrong
]
;W[kk]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: or w was wrong
]
;B[ki]C[VKnight [2d\]: or both
VKnight [2d\]: or niether
XiaoDragon [5k\]: ^ don't be so quick to discredit yourself :)
reprisal [-\]: so many possibliites for people to be wrong
reprisal [-\]: that's go for you
murrmurr [?\]: well, it might be a bit tough to clamp if black responds with d15
niceguest: the problem with the clamp i guess, is c18 d16 c17 and now e17 is gote
gogonuts [5d\]: the reason w didnt play d16 was that he really needed sente
byrain [2d\]: what percentage of professional moves are correct ones?
byrain [2d\]: prob less than 50%
Ukasuhs [4d\]: niceguest, b always responds to the clamp with c17
Ukasuhs [4d\]: you never give e17 as sente
temporary [8k\]: wow.. video is waaaaay behind eurogo tranfer to kgs
XiaoDragon [5k\]: "correct" is highly relative
]
;W[mi]C[byrain [2d\]: oh for sure. only kyus would respond d16 clamp with c16
Ootakamoku [2d\]: byrain, I think quite high, they do make good local choices
Koukkaaja [3d\]: you mean not self-ataris etc?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: i don't respond that way :O
byrain [2d\]: ya but probably 100% of fuseki moves are wrong
reprisal [-\]: its not relative to perfect play
Ootakamoku [2d\]: oh, that I agree with
gogonuts [5d\]: correct as in "accepted by humans as good" or as in "hand of god"? :-)
byrain [2d\]: and local fights prob wrong pretty often too
temporary [8k\]: over already? this looks impossible for W
reprisal [-\]: local fights are often going to be right
XiaoDragon [5k\]: ^my question exactly gogonuts :P
reprisal [-\]: even my moves are often right in local fight
SteveK [2k\]: cant be 100% wrong, there are only a finite number to choose from
Ootakamoku [2d\]: n11 feels slightly like overplay
reprisal [-\]: since many times the temperature is quite high and there is only one course anyway
byrain [2d\]: here's the funny thing reprisal
Ootakamoku [2d\]: pushing b towards w own weakness
byrain [2d\]: pros are probably not much better than you in making the correct moves
byrain [2d\]: in terms of percentage
VKnight [2d\]: gogonuts, only the human definition matter. hand of gos is uknown yet
reprisal [-\]: yeah probably not
byrain [2d\]: there are obviously best local moves
byrain [2d\]: those you will both get right
reprisal [-\]: 10-15% more maybe
XiaoDragon [5k\]: vknight, in which case it's relative ;)
reprisal [-\]: the difference is more in the quality of the incorrect moves
byrain [2d\]: ya
gogonuts [5d\]: w has more obvious problems but also a more dynamic position - hard to judge this position
byrain [2d\]: k14
reprisal [-\]: pro moves very rarely catastrophic failure
XiaoDragon [5k\]: i like white's style
temporary [8k\]: my bad moves are still better than your bad moves, so nya-nya?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: but your bad moves are probably worse than most of our bad moves :P
Ootakamoku [2d\]: actually, the 2 space jump is annoying, because it loses m10 later
Contrived [2k\]: hmm
reprisal [-\]: or m10 now
SteveK [2k\]: surely w can get enough out of pressuring l11 to win ??
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Live broadcast of this game on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I think m10 is excacly what w wants
XiaoDragon [5k\]: don't know about surely, maybe if white moyo was more concrete
Contrived [2k\]: pros use the same basic form that amateurs do
XiaoDragon [5k\]: even if he builds strength, there will be a lot of holes for black to exploit
Contrived [2k\]: but they identify the vital points better
reprisal [-\]: shrug, i have no idea what to do in this situation
gogonuts [5d\]: no wonder b is taking his time - this is a critical juncture
yew [4k\]: M10, L10? 
byrain [2d\]: k14
reprisal [-\]: few heuristics to use, too many branches to read anything
XiaoDragon [5k\]: m10 o9 i would guess
murrmurr [?\]: well, white has to build enough territory while threatening this group
Contrived [2k\]: ?
Contrived [2k\]: lol
]
;B[if]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: I would like to probe somewhere as b, to make it easier to decide how to proceed, but probably hard to get answer to any meaningfull probe
byrain [2d\]: for real
byrain [2d\]: this shape is weird
SteveK [2k\]: can b think about eventually sacrificing middle?
Jewels [-\]: no
Contrived [2k\]: yep
XiaoDragon [5k\]: no
SteveK [2k\]: and take top maybe
byrain [2d\]: what if w just h13
reprisal [-\]: well...if you can get a lot for it
reprisal [-\]: a LOT
reprisal [-\]: but its not something to be just tossed aside
Jewels [-\]: impossible
Contrived [2k\]: you can sacrifice anything at anytime
]
;W[gd]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: b can considerin throwing away indivual stones from center group sure
temporary [8k\]: sac middle? radical idea and probably game losing
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but letting it die as a whole, no way
reprisal [-\]: meh it could happen
reprisal [-\]: its only 20 points to die whole
Jewels [-\]: it's like, can b play t19? very hard
reprisal [-\]: i'd trade that for destroying the entire top, for example
XiaoDragon [5k\]: much more than 20 points
SteveK [2k\]: well not any more
CptHook [5k\]: 6d cant dies there..
Jewels [-\]: destroying entire top and making all dame with 2 pt life is impossible
Jewels [-\]: but okey
Ootakamoku [2d\]: l16, push a few times, and take corner?
Contrived [2k\]: this shape is hard though -.-
reprisal [-\]: i've seen larger things sacced in pro games
Ootakamoku [2d\]: or just make shape with like.. l13?
temporary [8k\]: w doesnt care if middle lives. w will gain so much more on top if it tries to live
reprisal [-\]: many times
Jewels [-\]: pros are pros
Jewels [-\]: this is 6d
reprisal [-\]: so?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: it's highly situational
Jewels [-\]: they will not do that
Jewels [-\]: not capable
reprisal [-\]: gravity still applies to everyone
XiaoDragon [5k\]: unless something very different happens
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black has 33, white has 37 minutes left
byrain [2d\]: it's not about they will not it's should you
klpp: n12
gogonuts [5d\]: n13 maybe
Contrived [2k\]: there's no good way to move here really -.-
]
;B[lg]C[Jewels [-\]: b is just trying to live
SteveK [2k\]: okay so how many points will b middle group get in the end ?
Contrived [2k\]: 3 points
reprisal [-\]: who knows, who cares
temporary [8k\]: 4
byrain [2d\]: would h13 allow w to take 3 stones
gogonuts [5d\]: i dont like m13 for o13
XiaoDragon [5k\]: from this position, i can't conceive of a scenario where black would want to sacrifice his stones
Ootakamoku [2d\]: tsuke this?
reprisal [-\]: its a liability, how many points it ends with is not really relevant
Contrived [2k\]: no
Ootakamoku [2d\]: or does w want to continue to tread lightly with o13?
byrain [2d\]: not anymore
morbidus [1d\]: is black really tired and sleepy or just pretending to be to irritate his calm and powerful opponent?
Contrived [2k\]: k13 stands out
byrain [2d\]: k13 no good probably
lukaszb [2k\]: b will not sacrifice this he already commited to live
XiaoDragon [5k\]: k13 looks bad
]
;W[jh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: n13 o13 looks like the moves
gogonuts [5d\]: yeah, its a little annoying that b is acting totally wasted
Jewels [-\]: he is tired
Jewels [-\]: did you forget
reprisal [-\]: but still playing a pretty solid game
Liso66 [?\]: b is just trying to have to eyes (open)
Jewels [-\]: he was sleeping the entire game
Jewels [-\]: :;)
Liso66 [?\]: two eyes
reprisal [-\]: like playing a little kid
gogonuts [5d\]: then again, if he is wasted, what can he do? :-)
spandam [?\]: how is ali jabarin?
Contrived [2k\]: this
reprisal [-\]: where they arent paying any attention the entire game
Contrived [2k\]: can't worlk
reprisal [-\]: look at board for 3 seconds than go back to fidgeting
reprisal [-\]: and they still win
Contrived [2k\]: j10
VKnight [2d\]: i think his behaviour is legit, he's not the type to miss on a good night out.
bobstep [2d?\]: big night in budapest can do that
Jewels [-\]: hehe
XiaoDragon [5k\]: j10 feels bad
gogonuts [5d\]: interesting timing - if b connects w n9
gogonuts [5d\]: if b fight back w might get around playing n9
Ootakamoku [2d\]: so want to keep it flexible as b
XiaoDragon [5k\]: n9?
gogonuts [5d\]: n9 after b connects
XiaoDragon [5k\]: oh n9
spandam [?\]: k12 is middle
Ootakamoku [2d\]: what about b f15?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: i looked at the board and thought it was n10 for some reason, which would be really odd shape
NoahWong [?\]: Hi guys
gogonuts [5d\]: if b fight w will prob get L10 in sente
gogonuts [5d\]: so he wont want n9 anymore
spandam [?\]: how are you? gogonuts?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: byrain, i think you need to give pros more credit
murrmurr [?\]: atleast 10 dollars
gogonuts [5d\]: im fine
mozarto [?\]: b looks like a losing guy
XiaoDragon [5k\]: ok now i need to see thsi, where is link to stream?
gogonuts [5d\]: my feeling is that k12 is too fancy though - o13 instead looked good to me
gogonuts [5d\]: but w is a sharper player than me :-)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: how about b just plays o13 here?
Contrived [2k\]: k13 looked more interesting than k12 to me
TheThe [6k\]: somebody give Ali a strong coffee please
XiaoDragon [5k\]: b can't tenuki this
Contrived [2k\]: this seems like it will fail
XiaoDragon [5k\]: no way
melmak: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/EuroGoTV1/pop-out
Ootakamoku [2d\]: sure b can tenuki this
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: XiaoDragon: live broadcast is avaiable here: http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
temporary [8k\]: se has w+80 :)
morbidus [1d\]: someone should have a mercy and give him an espresso 
gogonuts [5d\]: young and foolish go together naturally
mozarto [?\]: or let him go to the toilets
spandam [?\]: gogonuts, do you teach go?
gogonuts [5d\]: not really
Ukasuhs [4d\]: i prefer naive to foolish. foolish is when you dont learn from your mistakes
gogonuts [5d\]: i just dispense advice :-)
Dalgol [20k\]: how do you get into 1 pro dan?
rats [1d?\]: you guys talking about ali?
Contrived [2k\]: you win a lot
mozarto [?\]: you pay
byrain [2d\]: no offense but "se has b/w up by x amount" where x is vastly different from expected is reserved for 5-10k
Nyine [15k\]: Being a kid and travelling to Asia
murrmurr [?\]: you give money to right people
Ootakamoku [2d\]: seriously tho, how would w punish b for playing o13 now?
spandam [?\]: gogonuts, you can teach 
TheThe [6k\]: or, not a coffee - give him amphetamine pill
XiaoDragon [5k\]: se is only a good estimator late game
Contrived [2k\]: it was easier to punish with k13
gogonuts [5d\]: w would have to play k11
Jewels [-\]: TheThe, thanks for remember me, i will do some coffee now
morbidus [1d\]: Eurogotv, do you see how much time they have left?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o13 k11 k10?
Contrived [2k\]: and black loses the tail
xDragon [?\]: i think a nap and some coffee  would fix him right up
murrmurr [?\]: can consider some f15 probe or such
gogonuts [5d\]: poor ali, that must have been a tough night
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black has 24 minutes
mozarto [?\]: come on b move your ass ! ;)
Contrived [2k\]: f15 isn't good here
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: white has 36
gogonuts [5d\]: and it's even tougher because were all watching :-)
mozarto [?\]: he looks younger
Contrived [2k\]: f17 looks interesting later on
byrain [2d\]: k13
Contrived [2k\]: once the middle and right are settled
XiaoDragon [5k\]: what moves are black contemplating?
murrmurr [?\]: contrived, too small
Contrived [2k\]: black should contemplate j10
byrain [2d\]: k13 possible k11 possible 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: j10 wont happen
morbidus [1d\]: thanks. Well, byo yomi probably will energise him a bit
XiaoDragon [5k\]: j10 looks bad
Contrived [2k\]: why?
murrmurr [?\]: did black pass out btw
murrmurr [?\]: i'm not watching stream
Ootakamoku [2d\]: no
gogonuts [5d\]: you should :-)
XiaoDragon [5k\]: where did white go?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: extended break? :O
Contrived [2k\]: to me j10 is the only move
Ootakamoku [2d\]: he is reading for 10 minutes, then trying to get the sleep away from his eyes, and rince and repeat
XiaoDragon [5k\]: really loud kids
Ootakamoku [2d\]: er.. reading for 10 seconds..
SteveK [2k\]: why not j10 , why not j12 ?
gogonuts [5d\]: b is looking like a bear that just left his den in the spring
byrain [2d\]: so say w responds to j10 with k9
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I feel right side is alot more interesting then the left
morbidus [1d\]: hah
spandam [?\]: why so late? b didnt play stone anymore?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: just play o13!
]
;B[ih]C[byrain [2d\]: hmmmmm ya i actually like j10
byrain [2d\]: better than j12
Ootakamoku [2d\]: what a sad move
byrain [2d\]: tho i may have missed 
Contrived [2k\]: j10 is shape with j11 l11 k12 j9 l9 
byrain [2d\]: a response that will destroy b's j10
Contrived [2k\]: and
Contrived [2k\]: g10 g9 j9 j10 
Contrived [2k\]: white has no good response from what I can see
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w will just poke at b from all sides now
SteveK [2k\]: haha no one liked j10, now everyone does
Contrived [2k\]: but this hurts -.-
gogonuts [5d\]: its not easy for w
XiaoDragon [5k\]: who likes j10?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: :O
gogonuts [5d\]: s6 is very annoying
Dalgol [20k\]: how so?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: s6 undercutting a lot of the moyo white wants to build :P
Dalgol [20k\]: ah
rats [1d?\]: undercutting moyo?
Contrived [2k\]: I dont see it that way ;o
rats [1d?\]: someone sounds confused
Dalgol [20k\]: i do
byrain [2d\]: stevek, only me
Dalgol [20k\]: i am confused
byrain [2d\]: no one else does
gogonuts [5d\]: way back, i think n4 was a little to cavalier - better o4 to make tenuki harder for b
byrain [2d\]: maybe another 2k
Dalgol [20k\]: why is s6 bad for W
Contrived [2k\]: it's occupying a vital point
Ootakamoku [2d\]: dalgol, because the right side is open now
murrmurr [?\]: way back, i think d5 was a bit cavalier
Dalgol [20k\]: oh i see now
XiaoDragon [5k\]: i'm so confused, when i said that everyone jumped on me ._.
]
;W[ke]C[spandam [?\]: hey
gogonuts [5d\]: because if w builds awall to the center by attacking the group there, s6 already destroys a lot
murrmurr [?\]: i learned a new word, i have to use it
Ootakamoku [2d\]: here comes first poke
Contrived [2k\]: nice
xio [5k\]: l15 seems so big
byrain [2d\]: k12
Dalgol [20k\]: right thanks gogo and Ootakmuko :)
byrain [2d\]: or tenuki lol
xio [5k\]: k12 already taken
Contrived [2k\]: taka, he just butchered your name
gogonuts [5d\]: lol, murrmurr
byrain [2d\]: k13  i meant
XiaoDragon [5k\]: l15 smart move
byrain [2d\]: or tenuki
XiaoDragon [5k\]: emphasizing top instead of right side
Contrived [2k\]: why is it smart?
Contrived [2k\]: -.-
SteveK [2k\]: just l14 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o12 :)
byrain [2d\]: l14 m15 is so natural
byrain [2d\]: personally i won't play l14
gogonuts [5d\]: this is getting really tricky
byrain [2d\]: m10
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, dont want to touch w stones, its very expensive
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I still feel b is hunkering down too much here
Ootakamoku [2d\]: and should have treated his group more flexible
]
;B[jg]C[Contrived [2k\]: k13 is the move here since black already
gogonuts [5d\]: b would like to move in at o13 - but can he?
Contrived [2k\]: j12'd
niceguest: o13 perfect for w now?
Contrived [2k\]: no
murrmurr [?\]: if it was sente
gogonuts [5d\]: b behaves more foolishly late in the evening than on the go board :-)
SteveK [2k\]: m12 ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o13 looks mandatory
xio [5k\]: m12 looks nice
murrmurr [?\]: white kinda needs to secure corner
gogonuts [5d\]: securing this group is a good idea by b
Ootakamoku [2d\]: may maybe maybe can consider n15
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but it looks like a huge investment
gogonuts [5d\]: its hard for w to actually secure anything
gogonuts [5d\]: his position is built on attacking
Ootakamoku [2d\]: how about r16 :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: claiming that b cannot live with o17
Contrived [2k\]: in anycase, o13 is unsupported
Contrived [2k\]: so it's doomed to failure
]
;W[nd]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: that was a very contrived statement
Contrived [2k\]: if black o13, then n11 naturally does more work
Contrived [2k\]: and you shouldn't allow your opponents stones to become efficient
byrain [2d\]: so basically w got to play l15
byrain [2d\]: and pretty much made b so strong
byrain [2d\]: i conclude that k12 was not good for w
Contrived [2k\]: should've been k13 -.-
murrmurr [?\]: dunno, too much reading for me
XiaoDragon [5k\]: you sound so sure of everything you say, contrived
xio [5k\]: 1 k12 stone is surrounded by b stones
XiaoDragon [5k\]: why aren't you 6d?
xio [5k\]: looks like a good investment to me
Ootakamoku [2d\]:  airy position, just play pretty looking moves and pray
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o16 does look nice
byrain [2d\]: xio, w got to play k12 and l15
byrain [2d\]: b got to play j12 and k13
byrain [2d\]: so was l15 worth making b pretty settled
byrain [2d\]: b can live 100% in one move
Contrived [2k\]: yes
xio [5k\]: ws tone looks so much more efficient, but this may be misleading
morbidus [1d\]: black went to bed
gogonuts [5d\]: o16 is a good construction move, but b now has the time to probe the w weaknesses in the bottom center
Ootakamoku [2d\]: xio, locally w is ALOT more efficient
Contrived [2k\]: ehh
byrain [2d\]: n6
Ootakamoku [2d\]: still want to add a move to m13
lukaszb [2k\]: w had weaknesses in l9 and o4 shape
Ootakamoku [2d\]: since something like w 013 is practically sente against the b group
Contrived [2k\]: it's harder to probe without j10
lukaszb [2k\]: has
gogonuts [5d\]: b can move out at m10 and see iv f gets nervous below :_)
TuLy [8k\]: Pavol wins by res ...
xio [5k\]: ALOT - I knew I had seen that one: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-alot
XiaoDragon [5k\]: someone really likes playing with stones
Ootakamoku [2d\]: tuly, I think everyone knew that already
Ootakamoku [2d\]: like, right about the time pairings were decided
murrmurr [?\]: well, difficult game
gogonuts [5d\]: if w also gets n9, i dont see how b can win
TuLy [8k\]: ok :) sorry for repetition
gogonuts [5d\]: so b needs to go to work below
murrmurr [?\]: p17 might be too bad a peep, corner seems too valuable..
Contrived [2k\]: o6 looks effective
Contrived [2k\]: for a starting point
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o7 area looks really hard to secure
byrain [2d\]: ya o6 possible
byrain [2d\]: n6 or o7 even
byrain [2d\]: or n9
Ootakamoku [2d\]: how about r7 first?
byrain [2d\]: b r7?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya
TheThe [6k\]: how much time do they still have?
Contrived [2k\]: the right side already seems full of holes
Contrived [2k\]: and
byrain [2d\]: doesn't feel right
Ootakamoku [2d\]: actually, if I were playing, I think I would play r16 here, and claim j12 cant die
Contrived [2k\]: it allows white to make q6 thick in a natyural way
reprisal [-\]: maybe, but r16 is really close to m13
Koukkaaja [3d\]: leave and let die
Tsukikage [6k\]: why not q11 
gogonuts [5d\]: notice that the bottom left corner needs help if it gets cut off
Ootakamoku [2d\]: r7 would allow w to defend the o7 area.. which is quite hard to defend
jyka [3k\]: s7
jyka [3k\]: s16
Contrived [2k\]: gogo, that's why I suggested j10 earlier :D
jyka [3k\]: sry
XiaoDragon [5k\]: q11 not good, makes white develop strength and j11 not 100% alive
Ootakamoku [2d\]: just take away topright corner, what could possible go wrong with that? :)
Contrived [2k\]: :D
gnos [4k\]: 6d can live with that group.
gnos [4k\]: Easily
Ootakamoku [2d\]: is either players clock runing?
Contrived [2k\]: anyone can live with it
Pinguschaf [?\]: uncomfortable position for black
Ootakamoku [2d\]: or they decided to just take a break?
reprisal [-\]: not hard to live with it right now
reprisal [-\]: but its a lot harder if you go invading places
murrmurr [?\]: pingu, i think it's uncomfy for both
Contrived [2k\]: Idk
Contrived [2k\]: black is thick everywhere
Pinguschaf [?\]: i would be happy to be white here
byrain [2d\]: o7
byrain [2d\]: hehe
Contrived [2k\]: o6 :D
Nyine [15k\]: Clock is running?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: thick but not with much influence
Contrived [2k\]: o7 is interesting if you consider white q8 
Contrived [2k\]: but it doesnt fit the shape with l5 aji
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I dont get the need for fancy moves like o7..
gnos [4k\]: O7 has not been played...
byrain [2d\]: go is more entertaining with fany moves
byrain [2d\]: fancy
Contrived [2k\]: nothing fancy about normal shapes :D
Ukasuhs [4d\]: nothing normal about o7
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: ok, Ali came back
NiceGoAuth [-\]: @Eurogo, is it your aim, that your streams are only with sound on the iOS ustream app? Did you choose the format to be iOS incompatible. Some week ago, they were working also on iOS.
Ukasuhs [4d\]: looks totally random
nightcafe [1k\]: r17 steal points
Contrived [2k\]: o7 isn't totally random
Ukasuhs [4d\]: what do you hope to accomplish with it?
Contrived [2k\]: vital point for multiple groups
byrain [2d\]: not as random as say s10
TheThe [6k\]: euro, how much time is left for players?
gnos [4k\]: Where the heck is this o7. It's not on my screen.
Ukasuhs [4d\]: you think black o7 attacks multiple groups?
Contrived [2k\]: development on the right side
Contrived [2k\]: no
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: NiceGoAuth: actually i cant tell you anything about the stream, because im not the one who makes this. i just broadcast games, thats all.:) but sorry for any inconvenience.
xio [5k\]: o7 is between o6 and o8 on my screen
Contrived [2k\]: I think it hits the vital point for multiple groups
reprisal [-\]: o7 looks kind of like destroying an imaginary territory to me
Contrived [2k\]: I think o6 is better personally
XiaoDragon [5k\]: what does "vital point" mean?
reprisal [-\]: vital point is more like n6
NiceGoAuth [-\]: np, just want to let you know
Tsukikage [6k\]: i cant think of any good follow ups to o7
Ootakamoku [2d\]: xia, usually a point that makes good shape or breaks good shape
Ukasuhs [4d\]: i think throwing a random move out there for black is white's best chance of getting the entire right side
gnos [4k\]: No stone there on my screen.
XiaoDragon [5k\]: heuristics are nice, but if you can't find practical application doesn't mean much
gogonuts [5d\]: maybe peep at k8
Contrived [2k\]: -.-
Contrived [2k\]: try reading the moves then to see that they aren't random
battlepony [4d\]: g13 for living  or o13 
Ukasuhs [4d\]: also j11 isnt alive yet
murrmurr [?\]: there's lots of aji on top still
reprisal [-\]: n6, n9, q8 look like the vital points
murrmurr [?\]: but it's tough to read
Ukasuhs [4d\]: you cant just throw a stone into the middle of a bunch of groups and hope for the best
Ootakamoku [2d\]: uka, not alive is a bit relative, considering how much aji/space there is
reprisal [-\]: i'd start my reading at one of those
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black has 5 minutes left
byrain [2d\]: ya n6 is possible
SteveK [2k\]: is b awake ?
Contrived [2k\]: uka, I don't know what you want then -.-
byrain [2d\]: but i don't expect b to play n9
gogonuts [5d\]: n9 is vital indeed, but is n9 for m10 helpful?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: probably something that has a chance to connect out
Ootakamoku [2d\]: r16
gnos [4k\]: Not relative, just not settled yet.
spaga [1k\]: 13 h
Ootakamoku [2d\]: the n6 area still doesnt feel urgent enough
Ootakamoku [2d\]: too many holes
Gibbon [?\]: 5 minutes left??? can he really finish the game in so little time?
gnos [4k\]: That group can live though
XiaoDragon [5k\]: byo-yomi
reprisal [-\]: gogo>>probably not, thats why they are only the starting points :)
spaga [1k\]: m10
reprisal [-\]: just gives you some focus to reading
reprisal [-\]: otherwise you end up playing random moves like o7
xio [5k\]: b is doing well to take his time
xio [5k\]: this may be a turning point of the game
Ootakamoku [2d\]: xio, b was off having a break
Ootakamoku [2d\]: he has only read this like 30 seconds
xio [5k\]: heh
XiaoDragon [5k\]: more like 2-3 minutes
gogonuts [5d\]: b seems to have his eye on the upper left w group
reprisal [-\]: it is very thin
reprisal [-\]: h17, f15 bad aji
gogonuts [5d\]: now i cant tell anymore what he has his eyes on :-)
Koukkaaja [3d\]: b wins if he has an eye there
niceguest: g13 migh make a second eye in sente
gogonuts [5d\]: heh kid!
kalaryan [3k\]: go away kid
MusicQi [-\]: really x.x
]
;B[ed]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: I would go nuts trying to play in a noisy environment like that.
NiceGoAuth [-\]: NiceGo wanted to play this too:)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: thats.. suprising
niceguest: h13 for w
hitaus [4k\]: seems the last move was too devastating , B really took his time to ensure no blunders
Ootakamoku [2d\]: this is sente against c11
battlepony [4d\]: h13 
Gibbon [?\]: playing with an hangover is already hard enough i guess ^^
gogonuts [5d\]: turn down your volume, then its not so noisy
XiaoDragon [5k\]: time suji? or he sees something here?
niceguest: h13 is really bad 
niceguest: oops
XiaoDragon [5k\]: lol kid blocking camera T.T
Ootakamoku [2d\]: gogo, it works just fine when Im watchin a video stream, too bad I dont have that function inbuilt for when Im actually playing live
niceguest: sorry battlepony
MusicQi [-\]: does he not notice the camera?
MusicQi [-\]: o.o
Contrived [2k\]: this is interesting
Ukasuhs [4d\]: not sure how w answers, but even f16 leaves really big problems
Ootakamoku [2d\]: gogo, I have actually invested quite alot in noise isolating earphones just to avoid the problem
gogonuts [5d\]: when you play, you just have to concentrate deeper :-)
battlepony [4d\]: yes there is a cut but h13leaves B with 1 eye
niceguest: i thought the same thing
hitaus [4k\]: H13 could be countered with F15?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: battlepony, you think w has the libs for that race?
niceguest: but then i guessed h13 isnt really sente
Ukasuhs [4d\]: h13 is not sente, b can just go ahead on cut
gogonuts [5d\]: ali clowning around now
Ukasuhs [4d\]: h13 f15 g15 e13 
battlepony [4d\]: B f15 cuts W 
gogonuts [5d\]: w playing against a hung over terrorist
XiaoDragon [5k\]: GAP kid makes another cameo
Ntt [4k?\]: it s a fart...
Ntt [4k?\]: just a fart
niceguest: but if you think its good then its probably not as bad
kalaryan [3k\]: things getting funnier
xio [5k\]: you speak of f15, but how about f14?
Koukkaaja [3d\]: hangover is a major advantage, i know
Ukasuhs [4d\]: i hope w has some choice better than just f13
]
;W[fe]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: how long are the byo-yomi periods?
reprisal [-\]: f14 was also a real move
Aruchu [4d\]: aoutch
]
;B[fg]C[battlepony [4d\]: g13 
niceguest: nice b
Ukasuhs [4d\]: ya, g13
gogonuts [5d\]: progrss for b
TheThe [6k\]: 15 sec lag for video link
byrain [2d\]: e14
reprisal [-\]: g13 e12 hmm?
reprisal [-\]: ugly but...
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: XiaoDragon: each player has 3X10 minutes overtime period
]
;W[ee]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: reprisal, e12 doesnt threaten d12
TheThe [6k\]: how many moves in 10 min?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: as in 10 minutes per move?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: w can always c13 if u push
gogonuts [5d\]: f15 was a poor answer, imo - better f13 himself
Ootakamoku [2d\]: gogo, I took some tests to measure my concentration (and spatial memory) and its really good, however when I measured my multitasking, or handling distractions, I got equally bad results :P so ya, noise is a major problem for me :(
battlepony [4d\]: e15 was slack
]
;B[gc]C[gogonuts [5d\]: now b just gained more eyespace
byrain [2d\]: reason why e12 was not good was b g12
]
;W[hc]
;B[fc]C[byrain [2d\]: which makes b alive
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b also gained alot of profit here
byrain [2d\]: and w still needs to connect
reprisal [-\]: oh duh right
reprisal [-\]: h16 nasty too
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, it costs a bit, but w doesnt haaave to connect.
gogonuts [5d\]: sente or almost sente? :-)
greenmile [4d\]: wa it is not urgent there
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Live broadcast of this game on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
gogonuts [5d\]: w tenuki, imo
niceguest: b can always h15 if w tenuki
murrmurr [?\]: what for
reprisal [-\]: b is pretty much alive after f13
Ootakamoku [2d\]: h16 is the move for b
]
;W[hb]C[niceguest: at least alive in sente
Ukasuhs [4d\]: h15 h16 gains very little. just more eyspace
Ootakamoku [2d\]: well, that kinda connects w
Ootakamoku [2d\]: h18 nice fix
gogonuts [5d\]: w in safety mode - too early for that imo
gogonuts [5d\]: wasnt r15 better?
Pinguschaf [?\]: that was quite territorial gain for black
Aruchu [4d\]: invade corner ?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: funny thing is, b cannot capture g14 stone, without blowing up f17
Gibbon [?\]: this clock is funny
]
;B[lo]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: oot, he just cant capture it
gogonuts [5d\]: its not funny if you have to play with the damn thing
Ukasuhs [4d\]: h15 f16 g15 f14 no problem
reprisal [-\]: talking ing clock?
]
;W[mm]C[Sheriffi [-\]: the damn thing is funny
reprisal [-\]: god those were awful
Ootakamoku [2d\]: those clocks are soo annoying
Sheriffi [-\]: they're neat
gogonuts [5d\]: m5? really?
xio [5k\]: what did the closk do?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: the whole time you guys were talking about o6/n6/o7 i was thinking m5 was a much more logical move :/
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black entered into the first overtime period
reprisal [-\]: just glad i never had to play anyone who insisted on having volume up on it
gogonuts [5d\]: n7 does a lot for w
Contrived [2k\]: it isn't
Aruchu [4d\]: b might want to get r7 for free
battlepony [4d\]: f13 made B alive  - now B s16 
Ukasuhs [4d\]: xiao, i did say i would much prefer anything that could/is connected out
Uberdude [7d?\]: is vanessa wong there?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: seriously, topright already!
battlepony [4d\]: r8 big too
Contrived [2k\]: m5 is painful stuff -.-
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Uberdude: she isnt here
Tsukikage [6k\]: b p5 ?
]
;B[nn]C[Contrived [2k\]: o16 is less effective now
gogonuts [5d\]: b needs to find a justification for m5
Contrived [2k\]: o6*
Ootakamoku [2d\]: this looks natural, but couldnt see how I could make it work
Ukasuhs [4d\]: r8 leaves too much aji in the corner. r7 if u were going to play there
Contrived [2k\]: sigh -.-
Contrived [2k\]: should've o6'd first :\\
xio [5k\]: o6 really ncice
Ukasuhs [4d\]: contrived, then how would you answer w m5?
gogonuts [5d\]: w q4?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: your split with no way to live
Contrived [2k\]: with a song in my heart
Muttley [2k\]: "you're"
XiaoDragon [5k\]: it's okay, he sighs
Contrived [2k\]: I would answer m5
Ootakamoku [2d\]: n5 m6 is nice for b.. but how to handle w n6?
niceguest: b totally back in the game
XiaoDragon [5k\]: he doesn't care about reading, that's too fancy for him
Ootakamoku [2d\]: n6 n5 o5 p5 ko?
xio [5k\]: n5 perhaps...
XiaoDragon [5k\]: he just  plays what looks pretty for him
reprisal [-\]: thats a picnic ko
Ootakamoku [2d\]: xiao, often you should start reading from whats pretty
Contrived [2k\]: but this is just too good for white :\\
Ootakamoku [2d\]: as those usually work
shukaki [4d\]: White is displaying a superb sense of metacognition
Ootakamoku [2d\]: m5 was kinda natural move, and o6 is natural shape too
Ootakamoku [2d\]: in that order
gogonuts [5d\]: this will be a hard lesson for w if he loses with his opponent near death at the board :-)
xio [5k\]: you must be 6d to play such natural moves :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: m5 was natural looking because of n4 and l6, where as o6 is natural looking because of n7 m5 n4 stones
XiaoDragon [5k\]: sure, so why were we talking about how pretty o7/o6/n6 before m5 even played?
wade [5d\]: i think n7 was wrong move to counter m5
battlepony [4d\]: B n6 sacrifice
XiaoDragon [5k\]: silly to play that when white can just connect easily
]
;W[mn]C[gogonuts [5d\]: i take back that n7 was a useful reply
Ootakamoku [2d\]: xia, because if we start with o6 kind of move, it doesnt have the natural look
]
;B[mo]C[Contrived [2k\]: n7 was perfect 
]
;W[no]C[Contrived [2k\]: black has nothing but shape problems now
Ootakamoku [2d\]: black looks great now
murrmurr [?\]: i think white shouldn't have cut the funding on road maintenance
Muttley [2k\]: where?
gogonuts [5d\]: w can manage, but instead of n7 o6 himself was better
]
;B[nm]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: contrived, why are you so certain that your move is better than the 6d choice?
xio [5k\]: why not simply b o5 earlier?
wade [5d\]: i agree gogo :)
battlepony [4d\]: o7 needs reading :)
gogonuts [5d\]: now w is getting into real trouble ...
XiaoDragon [5k\]: that's what i've been asking the entire game, ukasuhs
battlepony [4d\]: p6 
Contrived [2k\]: o8 -.-
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o7 slightly suprising yes
SteveK [2k\]: contrived is a troll....
]
;W[qo]C[Muttley [2k\]: let's keep it about the game
Ukasuhs [4d\]: i mean, im not trying to say that higher rank means he always plays better moves, but you havnt accepted any of my explanations either
Jewels [-\]: who wins?
]
;B[ro]
;W[pp]
;B[qq]
;W[nl]C[gogonuts [5d\]: painful exchanges
Muttley [2k\]: white wins because eventually H13 kills black
]
;B[om]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: earlier in the game, I said my move was bad, since w didnt play it, simply because w is just about enough strong than me, that I feel I have to trust blindly that his moves are always better, if I start second guessing his moves, I will probably end up second guessing more moves wrong, than right.
wade [5d\]: i think b earned pts just by these exchanges....
battlepony [4d\]: p7 looks an overplay to me
Karnesun [6d\]: stream link please,
reprisal [-\]: p7 says b isnt done yet
callme [4d\]: http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
Uberdude [7d?\]: b is eatingz w's cheeezburga
]
;W[pl]C[Muttley [2k\]: be true to yourself, Ootakamoku
Muttley [2k\]: be true.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: did b mess up?
shukaki [4d\]: He who fears being conquered is certain of defeat.
Karnesun [6d\]: ty
XiaoDragon [5k\]: you guys should tour the country giving motivation speeches :P
gogonuts [5d\]: cannot contain b
Ukasuhs [4d\]: but conversely, if you just accept his (and any 6d+ moves) at face value, you'll never really learn from them
Contrived [2k\]: doesn't have to
Contrived [2k\]: squeeze is working
Ukasuhs [4d\]: not to mention, you can never surpass 6d with that thinking
manofearth [?\]: but if ur assessments r proven in subsequent play....
Muttley [2k\]: squeeze works if w gives up 3 stones
Ootakamoku [2d\]: just saying that in general, if someone is 4-5 stones stronger, he will be right way too often when you disagree, that its pointless to second guess
XiaoDragon [5k\]: it's not pointless at all
XiaoDragon [5k\]: they are human after all
xio [5k\]: I don't get p7
Karnesun [6d\]: Lukas have "Lucky T-shirt"
Ootakamoku [2d\]: its a bit like, 10kyu using empty triangle, he will usually get better results by NEVER playing it, than actually trying to use it in right situations.
Contrived [2k\]: it's not about guessing or one player being right and the other wrong
Karnesun [6d\]: )
RhysD [9k\]: P5?
Contrived [2k\]: it's about the logic behind the moves
]
;B[ol]
;W[ok]
;B[nk]C[VKnight [2d\]: second guessing is the way to improve.
]
;W[pm]
;B[ml]
;W[on]
;B[nl]C[manofearth [?\]: ?? ?? ??
XiaoDragon [5k\]: cool story, uberdude :P
TuLy [8k\]: lol :)
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: sorry, they played too fast
Muttley [2k\]: Uberdude, the issue is not whether you suggested the right move
SteveK [2k\]: game is rigged.....
edo2 [4k\]: usually at turnaments thowse options are unlocked
Muttley [2k\]: the issue is whether you understood why
Uberdude [7d?\]: i did
Ootakamoku [2d\]: uberdude, sure, you can get it right, BUT, more often you will get it wrong, than right when second guessing, which kinda defeats the purpose of the second guessing.
Muttley [2k\]: edo2, you can clone it
xio [5k\]: Uberdude is like Hikaru :)
CrstlSwrd: I can guess better moves when watching games than when playing
shukaki [4d\]: But when 12k has the right move, it is by luck
Muttley [2k\]: then well done :)
Contrived [2k\]: lol
edo2 [4k\]: sure , but still
wade [5d\]: l7 p10 are miai i think now
shukaki [4d\]: Yes
Ootakamoku [2d\]: tho its a cool story :)
Contrived [2k\]: unless the 12k understands the logic behind the move
roulette [1k\]: black attacking white group
goeb [15k\]: what hapend
Contrived [2k\]: -.-
Muttley [2k\]: edo2, that's a feature of demo games
battlepony [4d\]: unless h5 fies p7 is a big B failure
XiaoDragon [5k\]: you learn more from being right while following your own logic than piggybacking off or someone else's moves
reprisal [-\]: w reallllly thin looking now
Jewels [-\]: this story should be saved into sensei's library
shukaki [4d\]: Still nive for the 12k
battlepony [4d\]: fies/dies
edo2 [4k\]: ok i stop trolling
]
;W[nj]C[shukaki [4d\]: nive=nice
]
;B[ll]C[manofearth [?\]: when u watch u don't have 2 suggest every turn
XiaoDragon [5k\]: after all in your own games, you won't be able to compare your moves to what a 6d would do in that situation
]
;W[km]C[Contrived [2k\]: no, you learn by analyzing the moves and finding the strongest reasoning behind them
shukaki [4d\]: But it is more glorious to merit a sceptre than to possess one.
Jewels [-\]: you learn by learning
Contrived [2k\]: and then applying that to your own game hundreds of times
niceguest: p10 
]
;B[lj]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: contrived, do you remember when i said black coming in like this white's best chance at getting the whole right side?
martin97 [1k\]: m10
Jewels [-\]: ouchhh
martin97 [1k\]: yes
]
;W[oj]C[martin97 [1k\]: obv
Muttley [2k\]: great
Muttley [2k\]: one dead group meets another dead group
mihi [6d\]: w should win now 
Muttley [2k\]: "hello"
Contrived [2k\]: -.-
]
;B[lk]C[Contrived [2k\]: if he didn't m5 first
Jewels [-\]: hello muttley
Uberdude [7d?\]: this was nice squeeze
]
;W[gm]C[Contrived [2k\]: black would be a move ahead here
Muttley [2k\]: hi :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: this connect was atleast sente
Contrived [2k\]: instead of 3 moves behind
Ootakamoku [2d\]: some comfort in that
Ootakamoku [2d\]: r16?
edo2 [4k\]: corner
XiaoDragon [5k\]: that's very backwards thinking
Ukasuhs [4d\]: if he didnt m5 first he had no way to split white. i.e. no way to threaten any groups
XiaoDragon [5k\]: if black didn't m5 first white might've played very differently
Contrived [2k\]: -.-
XiaoDragon [5k\]: i.e. connecting
Contrived [2k\]: I can't do the thinking for you
Contrived [2k\]: just try reading out o6
Contrived [2k\]: without m5
Muttley [2k\]: I guess b lived in sente now
gogonuts [5d\]: annoying result for b, i thought he would do better
wade [5d\]: s15?
Muttley [2k\]: which is nice, no more dead groups :))
Ootakamoku [2d\]: xiao, how long have you played go?
reprisal [-\]: yeah w getting to play on both sides hurts
XiaoDragon [5k\]: ~ 2 years, this is second account, took a break for a while
Keley [7k?\]: that seqence was so inpresive, he split w and manage to live 
reprisal [-\]: now p10 thick and g7 fixes problems
SteveK [2k\]: was g7 more important than taking right ?
gogonuts [5d\]: the impressive thing is that it didnt help b
Ukasuhs [4d\]: im not trying to be stubborn contrived, but you're acting like im just blind here or something
]
;B[qd]C[reprisal [-\]: ukasuhs you are winning an award for most trolled kibbitzer
battlepony [4d\]: r15 
gogonuts [5d\]: keep the corner, imo
battlepony [4d\]: size is larger
XiaoDragon [5k\]: just realized your name was shusaku backwards
reprisal [-\]: surely r17
XiaoDragon [5k\]: lol
Muttley [2k\]: R15
NiceGoAuth [-\]: bot loves b position, 63% winrate
Muttley [2k\]: its Lukan, so he will R15
Ukasuhs [4d\]: haha xiaodragon :)
martin97 [1k\]: what
gogonuts [5d\]: which bot?
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Live broadcast of this game on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1 
Muttley [2k\]: which, pretty much guarantees he will R17
]
;W[qe]C[martin97 [1k\]: i saw this strange name so often
Muttley [2k\]: ole!
]
;B[re]C[martin97 [1k\]: and now realized its shusaku ^^
martin97 [1k\]: cool :D
NiceGoAuth [-\]: but not r16:)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: xiao, I have played for 3 years, and Im old when I even started playing, yet Im around egf 2dan strength, so I doubt my method of learning can be all that horrible.
Ukasuhs [4d\]: i also have had this account since i was 9k
NiceGoAuth [-\]: NiceGo of cause:)
reprisal [-\]: really surprised by r15
battlepony [4d\]: r17 then r14 to see if B knows standard tesujies
reprisal [-\]: heh
XiaoDragon [5k\]: damn just lost a n hour
gogonuts [5d\]: how nasty is niceGo?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: i hate daylight savings
Jewels [-\]: b really doesnt look good on the video
Jewels [-\]: very very tired
mishik [3k\]: bored
gogonuts [5d\]: hung over
Ootakamoku [2d\]: ya, definate hang over
Karnesun [6d\]: Ali always has PokerFace?)
gogonuts [5d\]: w will feel very tired afterwards if he doesnt win
Ukasuhs [4d\]: oh right, yesterday rounds were at midnight and 4 am. today its midnight and 5am cause of daylight savings lol
Jewels [-\]: it's good to talk with ali, if he feels good, sometimes a ppl like that can die
Jewels [-\]: Ask some water to him
Jewels [-\]: xD
battlepony [4d\]: q15 is joseki here
XiaoDragon [5k\]: he took a break maybe 15-20 minutes ago
XiaoDragon [5k\]: i wouldn't be too worried
]
;W[qc]
;B[rd]
;W[rc]C[Jewels [-\]: oh
Ootakamoku [2d\]: s17 slightly suprising
Jewels [-\]: so okay xiao
Jewels [-\]: i was not here
Ootakamoku [2d\]: isnt this like.. overplay?
battlepony [4d\]: q15 
]
;B[pe]C[mishik [3k\]: stream is freakingly late
Contrived [2k\]: not as overplayish as this :D
Muttley [2k\]: I guess white figures with M13 and S6, there's not much on the right
Ootakamoku [2d\]: q15 is fine
Jewels [-\]: come on b!
reprisal [-\]: but then why did he play r15
Ootakamoku [2d\]: r14 s14 and b has q17 to kill w
reprisal [-\]: just play r17 to start with if you want corner
Koukkaaja [3d\]: Ali needs a repair kit, Pálinka would do
Madzilla [3d\]: the video stream seems to be lagging a lot
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm q17 directly, isntead of q15 is normal
Contrived [2k\]: ^
Jewels [-\]: do you mean delay right
]
;W[od]C[Madzilla [3d\]: yes
Contrived [2k\]: q17 is better than q15 first
Jewels [-\]: well, it's a bit delay
]
;B[qk]
;W[pk]C[Jewels [-\]: R13
]
;B[qi]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: now balck is the one building territory on the right
BrTarolg [5k\]: wouldnt really call that territory
Jewels [-\]: pretty good for b
mihi [6d\]: w shouldn't be worried about eyes on that group...he still has 1 at N2 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I actually dont like b choice of s15
SteveK [2k\]: q9 was right ?
]
;W[qf]
;B[rf]C[Jewels [-\]: yes
]
;W[qg]C[Jewels [-\]: peep
]
;B[rg]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: not much territory, but went from white potential to small black life
Ootakamoku [2d\]: why not just go agressive for corner, seems like right side is mostly air anyways
]
;W[qh]
;B[rh]
;W[pi]C[BrTarolg [5k\]: gotta ask if
Contrived [2k\]: cut
BrTarolg [5k\]: black is really alive in centre first
]
;B[qj]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: question is if top is big enough
BrTarolg [5k\]: with all this new white strength
Muttley [2k\]: yes, b is
XiaoDragon [5k\]: center is alive
Contrived [2k\]: center is alive
Muttley [2k\]: H13 and N10 are miai
XiaoDragon [5k\]: it has 1 eye and 2 gote eyes
battlepony [4d\]: s10 was better IMO
Contrived [2k\]: 2 gote eyes
Ukasuhs [4d\]: after adding half eye at n9 center is good
martin97 [1k\]: q12
manofearth [?\]: G. that's a lot of b T.
reprisal [-\]: this seems a substantial w failure
reprisal [-\]: i'm stilllblaming r15
Uberdude [7d?\]: yah s10 means s7 doesn't cut the side
]
;W[mg]C[mishik [3k\]: G. T.?
RhysD [9k\]: N10 and G13 miai for life in the centre?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: d2?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: id blame r17 +s17. its just not good
XiaoDragon [5k\]: s17 seemed greedy
martin97 [1k\]: l16
reprisal [-\]: i think r17 and s17 not being good is a consequence of r15 being bad
]
;B[lf]C[Madzilla [3d\]: I'm pretty sure W is ahead
]
;W[lh]
;B[kh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: huh?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: well, what i mean to say is r17 + s17 is just worse than w cutting at s16
martin97 [1k\]: cool
Ootakamoku [2d\]: I have trouble seeing how w is ahead, not saying it cannot be but.. feels like yose posiutiosn favor b in a big way
niceguest: can w kill all?
]
;W[nf]C[Contrived [2k\]: white can kill nothing
battlepony [4d\]: I think W is 5+
]
;B[gn]
;W[hn]C[EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black is in the second overtime period
Muttley [2k\]: 57.5 b, komi is what? 8?
Madzilla [3d\]: yes, looks like even on the board so W wins by komi
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: white has 10 minutes left
reprisal [-\]: i count black ahead
Ukasuhs [4d\]: how does NZ counting work?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: chinese counting
]
;B[dr]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: pretty much same as chinese
SteveK [2k\]: they count sheep
wade [5d\]: dis he just got penalty for time?
]
;W[cr]C[EuroGoTV1 [-\]: yes
Ootakamoku [2d\]: they play by ing rules, or NZ rules?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: black seems very jittery
Muttley [2k\]: 49.5 w 57 b, with komi 8.5
Ukasuhs [4d\]: so its safe then to count japanese counting with 6.5 komi for same result
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: ing rules
wade [5d\]: how much are the penalties?
kalaryan [3k\]: why komi 8,5
Ootakamoku [2d\]: muttley, its 7.5 komi actually, if ing rules, since b wins ties.
mishik [3k\]: NZ allows suicide
XiaoDragon [5k\]: pretty much, shouldn't be too far off
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: 2 points for each period
Ootakamoku [2d\]: NZ just closest approximation of ing rules
]
;B[cs]C[Muttley [2k\]: thought it might be, thanks
]
;W[bs]C[wade [5d\]: thanks
martin97 [1k\]: ^^
]
;B[ds]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: isnt suicide legal in ing rules?
gnos [4k\]: I thought ing was 8 points even.
Madzilla [3d\]: yes it is
Muttley [2k\]: I still think the count is accurate to within about 2
xio [5k\]: seems like w+15
martin97 [1k\]: multistone suicide i think
pururun [4k\]: allowing suicide is beneficial in semeai
reprisal [-\]: and ko threats
manofearth [?\]: New Zealand?
reprisal [-\]: it does have uses, just not often
Madzilla [3d\]: I've never seen a position in a real game where suicide rule would make a difference
Ootakamoku [2d\]: NZ rules are actually kinda of elegant.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: madzilla, it makes a differnce quite often, since more ko threats
Muttley [2k\]: Shut up, Ing clock
]
;W[bq]C[Muttley [2k\]: else I shall throw you out of the window
Ukasuhs [4d\]: it can add a ko threat in corner situations quite often
TNETENNBA [2k\]: suicide allows creating dead shapes 
Madzilla [3d\]: only more ko threats if you can make nakade after suicide
Madzilla [3d\]: and that's not very common
Jewels [-\]: lol tnetennba
Ukasuhs [4d\]: very rarely can you make a dead shape since it will be your opponents turn
Ootakamoku [2d\]: 2 stones captured within 3 space
Ootakamoku [2d\]: add a move to suicide and its dead shape
HowAbout [2d\]: g8 ?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: oot, then its ur opponents turn and he lives >.<
Madzilla [3d\]: how often do you get two stones that are not connected in a 3 eyespace?
martin97 [1k\]: j7
Ootakamoku [2d\]: urgh, brainfart by me, mea culpa
Uberdude [7d?\]: suidide allowed does change status of some strange tsumegos
Madzilla [3d\]: it happens maybe 1 in 100 games
Muttley [2k\]: still a daft rule
Madzilla [3d\]: ... and then you need to have a position where the extra ko threat decides the game
cnorris [1k\]: Does Ali Jabrin have a medical problem? His whole body is trembling  a lot...
lupis [?\]: is it ing rules or simplified ing rules that are in use here?
]
;B[le]
;W[ld]C[Madzilla [3d\]: maybe 1 in a 1000 games
Jewels [-\]: he is tired man
reprisal [-\]: i think a rule disallowing it is the daft part
Ootakamoku [2d\]: muttley, but if you are teaching the rules to a new player, NZ rules are alot simpler
Jewels [-\]: :/
Madzilla [3d\]: ... and that's being generous
XiaoDragon [5k\]: tired, maybe jittery from coffee
]
;B[md]C[Jewels [-\]: but are his lags
cnorris [1k\]: maybe. or nerves
Jewels [-\]: legs*
Jewels [-\]: his legs are moving :)
Muttley [2k\]: I wouldn't know, Oota, on the rare occasion I explain the rules they are pretty simple anyway :)
reprisal [-\]: its potentially useful, it makes sense to be allowed, why bar it
Muttley [2k\]: Surround, take, win :)
reprisal [-\]: more elegant to allow it
]
;W[lc]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: the only problen nwith NZ rules is that its slower to count than japanese, due to area scoring.
Jewels [-\]: he is doing that cus he is tired, if he don't move, then he falls sleep
Ukasuhs [4d\]: n14 n17 o13 n12 p14 o15 q12 
Jewels [-\]: i do that too haha
Jewels [-\]: :D
Muttley [2k\]: w is getting more points at the top than I anticipated
EuroGoTV2 [-\]: Live TV broadcast of this game on on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
gnos [4k\]: Well, at least you don't need a ref to determine L&D in New Zealand rules.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, some issues with q17 aji?
Jewels [-\]: and that's what happens when you don't sleep for 2 days 
XiaoDragon [5k\]: really? white points at the top seem pretty set for quite a while
cnorris [1k\]: ya, he looks quite tired. Lukas, too.
Malingo [4d\]: o15 
roulette [1k\]: n14 will allow o15 first
Uberdude [7d?\]: n14 o15 
]
;B[gl]
;W[hl]
;B[fm]
;W[im]C[battlepony [4d\]: g18 big
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o15 p15 n14 
Uberdude [7d?\]: s7 too
]
;B[me]
;W[mc]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: why n15? what was wrong with o15 instead?
Jewels [-\]: hi uber
battlepony [4d\]: r6 better than s7 ?
gnos [4k\]: N16 looks like aji keshi now
Ukasuhs [4d\]: o15 p15 doesnt change anything, does it?
Uberdude [7d?\]: it does make ko
Ootakamoku [2d\]: o15 p15 n14  and its a ko
Jewels [-\]: Ali can got heart atack
]
;B[qn]C[Jewels [-\]: 0o
]
;W[ql]
;B[rl]C[Jewels [-\]: i hope not
battlepony [4d\]: f18 
Uberdude [7d?\]: c13 or b6 bigger hmmm
]
;W[ak]
;B[bl]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: b6 instead of b8?
Meto [2d\]: h7
Jewels [-\]: ok let me back to the work
]
;W[bg]
;B[cg]
;W[ch]
;B[bf]C[battlepony [4d\]: f16 
rvrey [5k\]: b ahead 
NiceGoAuth [-\]: how much penalty does b have now?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: plauing f18 or anythign there is a bad idea
]
;W[or]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: since allowes b to play h15
]
;B[pr]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: still only 2
NiceGoAuth [-\]: than b save ahead?
Meto [2d\]: h7 
]
;W[fa]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: e18 sente..
]
;B[sc]
;W[sb]
;B[sd]C[Jewels [-\]: whats the count pls
]
;W[rb]C[murrmurr [?\]: it's pretty close but i count black ahead
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b+-10 points
Jewels [-\]: thx
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b did get a 2 point time penalty?
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: yes
roulette [1k\]: e18 i thought bigger than s17
NiceGoAuth [-\]: b+7 I have including the penalty
rvrey [5k\]: really ?? it is possible 
VKnight [2d\]: i've counted w+8
cnorris [1k\]: komi, too?
VKnight [2d\]: but my counting is poor :)
NiceGoAuth [-\]: yes kome 8 and penalty 2 makes 10 I hope
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b e19 
gnos [4k\]: Correcting SE's bad count, it looks like a slight lead for black.
]
;B[ag]C[Karnesun [6d\]: i guess that g13 h13 could be nervous
NiceGoAuth [-\]: se allways wrong with chinese
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b e19, looks like it captures f19, or if w resist b can capture g14 with h15
cnorris [1k\]: SE counts w+58...
Muttley [2k\]: view offlline, change score system to Japanese, score again
NiceGoAuth [-\]: and if seeing middle group dead I think
gnos [4k\]: correcting for that is what I meant.
cnorris [1k\]: lokks a wee slightly off to me
cnorris [1k\]: looks
NiceGoAuth [-\]: I count with bot
Ootakamoku [2d\]: could someone stronger comment on does b e19 work?
martin97 [1k\]: e18?
]
;W[kf]
;B[kg]C[callme [4d\]: it works
gnos [4k\]: And the score difference is usuallly only off by one between chinese and japanese rules, barring sekis.
murrmurr [?\]: h15 or such
Contrived [2k\]: e19 is th emove there
]
;W[gg]C[battlepony [4d\]: e18  is better than e19
gnos [4k\]: 1 point is less than the accuracy of SE anyway.
Ootakamoku [2d\]: but e18, doesnt capture f19
Tsukikage [6k\]: b had h15 before w went to f19 
]
;B[eh]C[okm [3k\]: e19 looks like ko
jyka [3k\]: e18 f16 problem with h16
murrmurr [?\]: neither move captures f19
murrmurr [?\]: both are gote
]
;W[dh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: murr, look at b e15
Ootakamoku [2d\]: only reason it doesnt work is that w f16 is sente
Ootakamoku [2d\]: e19 fixes that
murrmurr [?\]: black e15?
]
;B[jj]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: errr.. h15
battlepony [4d\]: B h15  f16 e18 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: yes, but if b has e19 first..
Ootakamoku [2d\]: how does w respond
murrmurr [?\]: with g19?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: urgh, right
pururun [4k\]: g19 gote
Koukkaaja [3d\]: :)
]
;W[jk]C[georgee [1d\]: it's very alive :)
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black is in the last overtime period
wade [5d\]: b12 :)
jyka [3k\]: k15
wade [5d\]: how much time for each period?
]
;B[li]C[Muttley [2k\]: 2 points
XiaoDragon [5k\]: 10 minutes iirc
TuLy [8k\]: SE solved this game :D
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: 10 minutes
wade [5d\]: thd
Muttley [2k\]: it just said "black 6 point penalty"
XiaoDragon [5k\]: is white in overtime yet?
wade [5d\]: gotta play faster now
]
;W[he]C[yew [4k\]: h12 ?
NiceGoAuth [-\]: hmm, is b still save?
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: XiaoDragon: not yet
]
;B[ea]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: b has time for n12?
]
;W[ga]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: lol, still e19 :)
]
;B[fb]C[murrmurr [?\]: well, it's the bigger variant 
murrmurr [?\]: both are gote
]
;W[mh]C[Contrived [2k\]: q12 looks useful
mozarto [?\]: w h12?
XiaoDragon [5k\]: wait, is center fully alive?
RhysD [9k\]: If white plays N10, where is black's second eye?
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Live broadcast of this game on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: a bit suprising, b didnt go for some kind of trade with n12
]
;B[bo]
;W[co]C[Jewels [-\]: yes it's full alive
murrmurr [?\]: well, black is ahead by some 6 points
]
;B[nr]
;W[mr]
;B[os]C[murrmurr [?\]: more even
Muttley [2k\]: G12 is second eye
Jewels [-\]: or n10 :)
]
;W[ms]C[RhysD [9k\]: Oh, I see.  I missed that G12 still made an eye
Tsukikage [6k\]: g12 e13 h13 sequence creates a second eye also
XiaoDragon [5k\]: what if white g12?
]
;B[ir]C[mozarto [?\]: why not w h12 ??
Ootakamoku [2d\]: g12 h10 
wade [5d\]: h12 h13 
xio [5k\]: n10?
Jewels [-\]: hehe
]
;W[bn]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: how does b answer h11?
]
;B[an]C[MicMac [2d\]: j10?
battlepony [4d\]: a12 ko
mozarto [?\]: then h11
Silentium [4d\]: h12 
]
;W[ah]
;B[bh]C[Jewels [-\]: a12
wade [5d\]: h12 h10 h9  sorry h13 
MicMac [2d\]: nvm
NiceGoAuth [-\]: close again bot thinks
mozarto [?\]: ah thanks
battlepony [4d\]: e2 
]
;W[dk]
;B[ck]
;W[bg]C[EuroGoTV1 [-\]: white is in the first overtime period
Ootakamoku [2d\]: e2 loses half a point
mozarto [?\]: then j10 first?
]
;B[pc]
;W[pb]
;B[bh]C[xio [5k\]: manhood ko at the end of the game good to clear up the board
Ootakamoku [2d\]: oh, maybe not, er not sure.
battlepony [4d\]: e2 does not lose anything
]
;W[mj]C[RhysD [9k\]: Can someone explain the penalties?
]
;B[gh]C[TuLy [8k\]: m4? for W?
]
;W[bg]C[Muttley [2k\]: 2 points each 10 minute overtime period you enter
Muttley [2k\]: max 3 overtime
]
;B[af]C[RhysD [9k\]: I see.  Never realised there was a penalty for using the overtime
Ootakamoku [2d\]: any study, on whather 10 minutes is worth 2 points, on average?
Muttley [2k\]: Ing
]
;W[fp]C[manofearth [?\]: but was there a "free
]
;B[je]
;W[jd]C[Uberdude [7d?\]: some pro games the time penalty changed result
ruskin [8k\]: e13 kills?
Jewels [-\]: man, give some water to ali
manofearth [?\]: ' ie. normal, byoyomi preceeding the penalizeds 1's
Muttley [2k\]: that's right, Uberdude
Jewels [-\]: :p
Ootakamoku [2d\]: j15
XiaoDragon [5k\]: e13 h13
eurogotv4 [-\]: Now  i close the  game
Uberdude [7d?\]: e13 h13  ruskin
Koukkaaja [3d\]: why spoil good hangover with water?
ruskin [8k\]: ok
battlepony [4d\]: W lost the game in yose?
]
;B[gb]
;W[ha]
;B[fd]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: hmm, isnt the ko still worth playing?
]
;W[hg]
;B[eg]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: it is, but the temperature dropped after balck connected
Jewels [-\]: for b yes
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b12 looks like 1/2 point sente move
XiaoDragon [5k\]: so they are playing what is worth more then going back to it
Jewels [-\]: r7
Uberdude [7d?\]: a4 first too
]
;W[ie]
;B[jf]
;W[kd]
;B[bh]
;W[qm]C[Jewels [-\]: r7 is biggg
]
;B[rm]C[Jewels [-\]: ops
]
;W[bg]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: q5
]
;B[ph]C[Contrived [2k\]: q12
]
;W[pf]
;B[bh]C[Jewels [-\]: o15
]
;W[ap]
;B[ao]
;W[bg]C[TuLy [8k\]: m4
Ootakamoku [2d\]: feel like b should play this ko faster
Ootakamoku [2d\]: not worth using time on this
]
;B[po]C[Jewels [-\]: g7 still ok
martin97 [1k\]: k5
]
;W[ns]
;B[or]C[battlepony [4d\]: g7 is half point sente
martin97 [1k\]: q10
Gibbon [?\]: h10 for b?
]
;W[ne]
;B[bh]C[Contrived [2k\]: so much aji wasted
]
;W[er]
;B[es]
;W[bg]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: m4 or m1 for b
]
;B[de]
;W[ef]
;B[bh]C[flogo [2d\]: is there a video link please ?
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: Live broadcast of this game on http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1 
cnorris [1k\]: http://eurogotv.com/index.php?menu=Live&channel=EuroGoTV1
flogo [2d\]: tanks
battlepony [4d\]: b4 
flogo [2d\]: th*
Jewels [-\]: eurogo faster than chuck norris
Jewels [-\]: nice
]
;W[eb]
;B[da]
;W[bg]
;B[pj]
;W[oi]
;B[bh]
;W[ri]
;B[rk]
;W[bg]
;B[of]
;W[oe]
;B[bh]
;W[bp]
;B[am]
;W[bg]
;B[kl]
;W[jl]
;B[bh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: m1!
Contrived [2k\]: black woke up a little it seems
Jewels [-\]: m1!!!
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: i try my best :)
]
;W[hh]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: just f7?
Jewels [-\]: ;)))
]
;B[hi]
;W[bg]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: g7 i mean
martin97 [1k\]: m1 is cool
wade [5d\]: j10 :)
]
;B[qo]C[Jewels [-\]: yes
]
;W[oo]
;B[bh]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: so much for m1..
marius1 [2d\]: b ++
MicMac [2d\]: m1 looks not s9 big
Ukasuhs [4d\]: but m1 w answers with p5
Ootakamoku [2d\]: b gets m2 in sente then
MicMac [2d\]: perhaps 1/2 points
vrnBugatti [10k\]: m2 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: so its 1/2 point gain, maybe 1.5 points actually
]
;W[ai]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: why not just g7?
marius1 [2d\]: b + 15 at least
]
;B[jo]C[tshhtshh [1k\]: m4
]
;W[jn]C[tshhtshh [1k\]: ..
Jewels [-\]: g7 pls
]
;B[gm]C[battlepony [4d\]: W lost game in big yose
andreiraz [3k\]: B+5
vrnBugatti [10k\]: f14 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: l1
XiaoDragon [5k\]: remember b has penalty points
]
;W[ij]C[Jewels [-\]: penalty?
]
;B[hj]C[Gibbon [?\]: how many penalty points?
]
;W[hk]C[Muttley [2k\]: so does w, so 4 point difference
mozarto [?\]: f14 h14
battlepony [4d\]: s17 was an omen
XiaoDragon [5k\]: b -6 w -2
Muttley [2k\]: makes it 11.5 komi, wow
]
;B[kj]
;W[ig]
;B[bg]C[battlepony [4d\]: l1 
lukaszb [2k\]: b13?
Ootakamoku [2d\]: l10 mistake
]
;W[dp]
;B[er]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: l2 not worth anything i think
Ootakamoku [2d\]: 0 point gote
MicMac [2d\]: l1 m1 is o point
]
;W[hq]C[lukaszb [2k\]: why b13?
Ukasuhs [4d\]: l1 isnt any change i points. b has to capture the stones anyway
XiaoDragon [5k\]: l1*
Jewels [-\]: l10 is 0 pt since he still have to capture k11
battlepony [4d\]: is not
Jewels [-\]: lol
]
;B[ar]
;W[br]
;B[hp]C[battlepony [4d\]: if B sacrifices at n3 loses 1 point
]
;W[ks]C[DeepSnow [3d\]: I think n9 is 0 points
Ukasuhs [4d\]: but he wont
]
;B[js]
;W[ls]C[Ukasuhs [4d\]: he has no need/reason to do that
]
;B[hq]
;W[ln]C[pururun [4k\]: if the komi is 8 and the game is jigo... how to determine the winner? or leave the game as draw?
plusQ [6k\]: f14 
]
;B[al]
;W[aj]
;B[ff]C[cnorris [1k\]: b
]
;W[ge]C[mafutrct [2k?\]: then b wins
]
;B[ji]
;W[mf]
;B[mk]C[XiaoDragon [5k\]: if komi is a whole number, then it's a draw
pururun [4k\]: ooh i see
XiaoDragon [5k\]: if they have same points
cnorris [1k\]: so essentially its a 7.5 komi
Ukasuhs [4d\]: in this ruleset, black wins draws
Uberdude [7d?\]: mr ing is strange guy, komi is 8 and b wins draw, he doesn't want to say 7.5
XiaoDragon [5k\]: then why call it komi is 8 lol
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: sorry, i lost the last few moves
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: they are counting now
Ootakamoku [2d\]: should have time settings such as.. 0 minute maintime, every additional 1 minutes costs 1 points, feel free to play at any pace you want :)
XiaoDragon [5k\]: as people pointed out, it is equivalent to 7.5
Uberdude [7d?\]: cos mr ing wanted to troll kgs chat
]
;W[hf]C[mozarto [?\]: i think ing doesn't like float numbers
DeepSnow [3d\]: ohey uberdude is 7d now
]
;B[lp]C[cnorris [1k\]: i can understand the notion... there are no half points or half captured stones
Uberdude [7d?\]: for the lulz
]
;W[np]
;B[lq]C[Uberdude [7d?\]: not really =)
]
;W[mq]C[Koukkaaja [3d\]: ootakamoku it is impossible to lose with such settings
Koukkaaja [3d\]: unless you want to
DeepSnow [3d\]: if warf keeps winning you might get to 9d :P
]
;B[fj]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: well, we could cap at 3 hours or something
]
;W[fk]
;B[ko]C[Uberdude [7d?\]: in few days my 1d game will expire
battlepony [4d\]: W played amazingly bad in upper right
Uberdude [7d?\]: then wf2 can make me 9d!
murrmurr [?\]: uberdude, a sound plan
murrmurr [?\]: so, what's the score here
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black won by 5 points
murrmurr [?\]: gg
battlepony [4d\]: hard to win a  won game I guess
cnorris [1k\]: SE days b+24 ???
cnorris [1k\]: says
XiaoDragon [5k\]: SE is off for all area counting
Uberdude [7d?\]: SE is broken on purpose for non japanese rules
XiaoDragon [5k\]: only works for japanese
bikle [5k\]: Another round to come, when ?
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: thanks for watching, the next round will start in an hour
EuroGoTV1 [-\]: see you there! :)
XiaoDragon [5k\]: why do you say "broken on purpose?"
bikle [5k\]: thanks
Uberdude [7d?\]: because it is broken for japansese too, but not on purpose
Contrived [2k\]: because everyone love sjapanese scoring :D
XiaoDragon [5k\]: so they designed it to not work for other counting methods?
TheThe [6k\]: japanese rules rule ;-P
lukaszb [2k\]: whats the score?
Uberdude [7d?\]: it wa sonkly designed for japanese
Jewels [-\]: nice review
Fratloev [1k\]: "EuroGoTV1 [-\]: black won by 5 points"
])